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Doris
Doris, Antiques Appraiser
Category: Antiques
Satisfied Customers: 9933
Experience:  Antiques store owner 10+yrs.Best of City Two Years.Collector 56+yrs.USPAP compliant. Member AOA.Founded part of antiques, silver & art collection at local museum.
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I have a canteen of cutlery with Edward Viners mark on the

Customer Question

I have a canteen of cutlery with Edward Viners mark on the silverware. There's a crown and a lion with 3 feet on the ground and one at 240 degrees (right front foot). Then there is the letter t - quite a thin letter with the top of the t bending slightly to the right. It's the letter t that I don't understand in terms of dating the canteen - could it be 1911, or more likely later?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Antiques
Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
Hello and welcome! My name is Doris.
I have been an antiques collector, dealer and appraiser for over 56 years.
I will be pleased to help you.

If you see a rate me message and I have not given you an answer With the value you are not to rate anything.
Again, ignore any rate me messages until you see my answer with the value.

It would be helpful to have a photo of the hallmarks.

Please send me a photo of the marks on the bottom. You may need to use the macro function (flower icon) of your camera to get a good clear photo.

If you cannot get a good photo, then sketch the mark and take a photo of the sketch.

To send photos you may use the "attach" or "add" link or paper clip you see on your reply page.

If none is there, then you may use the free internet photo site
imgur.com Use the following instructions:

Go to http://www.imgur.com

a. Click "Computer"
b. Find the photo file on your computer that you want to send
c. Click open on the file
d. You will see a Start Upload link on the imgur.com page.
Click on it
e. Your image will appear on the screen
f. Highlight and copy the address link under Direct Link
to the right on the imgur page
g. Paste that link into your reply box on Just Answer

I assume you want value?

To give you that I also need a photo of the pattern.

Then I need to know how many people your canteen serves. (This is called the number of place settings).

Then how many pieces are in each place setting?

Finally, I need to know what serving pieces you have. These can add a lot to value.

Kind regards,
Doris
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hello Doris

Pls see attachements. And yes I would like it valued.

The canteen serves 12. I am not quite sure how many pieces in each setting - Perhaps 5 or 6. Maybe you could see from the photo?

In terms of serving pieces, there appear to be 6 serving spoons, 2 small ladels, and one very large ladel. And carving knife and fork, with steel. The set was given to my grandparents (deceased almost 40 years ago), maybe long before they died.

It would also be helpful to know where I could sell it to achieve the price you estimate?

Kind regards

David

Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
David,
The photos are excellent. Congratulations! Many cannot give me such good photos.

Thank you for all the information.

Please allow me time to research your question, calculate current values and write my answer.

Kind regards,

Doris
Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
Are the knife handles bakelite, bone or ivory? Are and handles split? Are the blades stained?

Kind regards,
Doris
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

OK Doris. Wait to hear from you. I am UK based. It would appead you are US based. I do travel to the US with relative frequency. However, bringing something like a canteen would be difficult I imagine. If you can advise on saleable value in both countries, it would be helpful. Or if the best price is achieved in the US, advice on how to bring it there (customs etc) would be helpful.

Another even clearer photo attached.

Kind regards

David

Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
I need to know about the knives. Are the blades stainless steel?
I can suggest some places that sell in the UK.

Kind regards,
Doris
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Yes, they are stainless steel.

Kind regards

David

Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
David,
Are the handles composition, bone or ivory. It is important to know. If bone or ivory, are the handles split?

Kind regards,
Doris
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Doris

It's 100% Ivory and the handles are not split. The authenticity card is attached.

Kind regards

David

Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for the certificate. It is very helpful.

I can work on my valuation now.

Kind regards,

Doris
Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
I am almost finished with the assessment but I need a photo of the pattern.

Please send me two photos - one of the front and one of the back of the pattern.

Also, are you selling the custom table with the silver?

To send photos you may use the "attach" or "add" link or paper clip you see on your reply page.

If none is there, then you may use the free internet photo site
imgur.com Use the following instructions:

Go to http://www.imgur.com

a. Click "Computer"
b. Find the photo file on your computer that you want to send
c. Click open on the file
d. You will see a Start Upload link on the imgur.com page.
Click on it
e. Your image will appear on the screen
f. Highlight and copy the address link under Direct Link
to the right on the imgur page
g. Paste that link into your reply box on Just Answer

Kind regards,
Doris
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Not completely sure I understand what you are asking for when you say "pattern". Attached a couple of photos in case they are what you want.

And yes I would be selling the custom table at the same time.

Kind regards

David

Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
I have some news that may prevent you for both selling or exporting the ivory handles on your knives.
They are earlier than when the first ban was issued but I think there is a recent ban on selling or exporting any African ivory.
If it is legal, both the seller must obtain a type of permit called a Cities Permit.

You can learn about the rules and regulations plus how to obtain the permit on this UK website

https://www.gov.uk/cites-imports-and-exports

You may need to sell your set without the knives.

The complete set dates 1936-37 which is an interesting year because of the Duke of Windsor's abdication. Your set was made in Sheffield, UK by the silver firm of Viners as you know.

The retail vintage shop value of your set and table without the knives would be about $9200 or 5880 GBP at today's rate.

The difficulty of selling the knives and carving set makes their value about $1000 or 639 GBP.

If you want to sell close to retail then you would need to try something like placing an ad on the UK - London - CraigsList.com. Another way, is to place an ad in one of the antiques magazines or trade booklets. These can be found at most antiques fairs or sometimes at news stands.

To sell to the trade at 40-60% retail, try www.danddantiques.com

In the US, you should try these dealers, but expect only 40-60% retail -

antiquecupbaord.com or estatesilver.com

To sell retail in the US, try an ad in the Maine Antique Digest found at

http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/

I wish I had better news about the knives. When I had my store, I had a $5000 shipment confiscated because I did not have a Cites Permit.

I hope I have helped you.

If I can help you with further questions about this answer, please let me know before you rate me.

All my answers are quoted in USA dollars.

I endeavor to give realistic, honest answers in a timely manner.

If you would like to work with me on future questions, I would be pleased to work with you.
All you have to do is put my name (Doris) at the beginning of your question.

Please take a little time to give me a POSITIVE RATING now so that I am compensated by JA for my time and effort. This is of no cost to you.

Please do not rate me down because of system difficulty, site charges or current appraisal values - all three are beyond my control.

Please let me know if you have difficulty with the site's rating system. To rate me, you should see 5 stars near my answer. 5 stars gives me the best rating.

Kind regards.

Doris
Doris and 2 other Antiques Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Many thanks Dori for your comprehensive answer.

Could I ask 2 final questions -

1. what do the final single letters in the hallmark on the cutlery signify? Depnding on the cutlery item, they range from "t" (desert forks) to "P" (serving spoon) to "n"(large forks)?

2. what led you to conclude that it was 1936-37?

Many thanks again.

Kind regards

David

Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
David,
The 1936-37 came from Jackson's Hallmarks - style of stamp is pointed at the bottom and the style "t" is that for 1936-37.The "t" for 1911 is not in a pointed stamp. In fact, the stamp Sheffield crown, the lion passant and the date letter are all pointed and are consistent wuth the marks for 1936-7.

If the "p" is in the same style stamp then it is for the year 1932-33. Also, if the "n" is in the same style stamp, it is for the Sheffield marking year cycle 1930-31.

It is not unusual to have a mixture of close dates by the same maker in the same style of pattern in a set.

Thank you so much for the positive rating.

Best,

Dris
Expert:  Doris replied 2 years ago.
Thank you so much for the positive rating. If you have questions in the future, please request me by typing “Doris” at the first of the question.

Thank you again.