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Doris
Doris, Antiques Appraiser
Category: Antiques
Satisfied Customers: 9929
Experience:  Antiques store owner 10+yrs.Best of City Two Years.Collector 56+yrs.USPAP compliant. Member AOA.Founded part of antiques, silver & art collection at local museum.
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I have an oil painting of a woman on. She is wearing 16th

Resolved Question:

I have an oil painting of a woman on wood. She is wearing 16th century clothes and on the back there are two notices. One is the Coat of Arms of a Palmer Family and the other says that the portrait is of the mother of the illegitimate daughter of Charles of Spain who married the Duke of Parma. What do I need to do to have the work authenticated or otherwise
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Antiques
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

Hello and welcome! My name is Doris.
I have been an antiques collector, dealer and appraiser for over 56 years.
I will be pleased to help you.

Please send a photo of the signature as well as one of the painting.

What is the size of your painting, not including the frame. Please do not remove from the frame.

You may need to use the macro function (flower icon) of your camera to get a good clear photo of the signature.

To send photos you may use the "reply to expert" or "add files" in the blue box link on your reply page or the "paper clip" found in the toolbar you see on your reply page.
Please do not send in ZIP format. The jpg or jpeg format works best.

An explanation of this method can be found here:

http://ww2.justanswer.com/help/how-do-i-send-photo-or-file-expert-0

Kind regards,
Doris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The painting does not have a signature that I can see
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

Is there any writing on the back?

Can you send a photo of the back of the framed painting?

Kind regards,

Doris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No signature. 15.5 inches wide and 21.5 inches from top to bottom
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

Can you send me a photo of the framed painting? I am trying to determine age.

Kind regards,

Doris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The frame has been paint black but it is gold leaf underneath
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

I need an actual photo of the back.

Are you able to send that?

Kind regards,

Doris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I will be back with photograph shortly
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

There is no hurry.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have sent a photograph of both front and back but it doesn't seem to be working. Have you received the photographs?
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

Yes. Thank you.

Do you know what the writing on the back says?

Kind regards,

Doris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It is in French and says it is the portrait of Marguerite de Vauziol the mistress of Charles quint born....died 1586. She was the mere of Marguerite d'Austriche who married 1st Alexandre de Medici 1535 2 jd Octave Farnese 1556 Ducks di Parmesan. The above description from a 'notice historique' of the Gallery of the ancient pictures of Versailles where the......a picture. The English is our translation.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The Ducks de Parmesan is my computer playing tricks it should be Duc de Parmese
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

The last part seems to say your painting is a copy of an original that hung in the Gallery of Old Paintings at Versailles.

What do you think?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I simply have no idea which is why I am asking. I have a portrait of the Duke of Ormonde from about 1660 which is most definitely original. The wood of this woman's portrait looks as old if not older. The Palmer insignia is correct for branches of that family in England and Ireland. So the meaning could be as you suggest or it could be that an earlier attempt to identify used the description from Versailles. It is likely that there could be a portrait of this woman in Versailles because of the Medici connection and because Charles was happy enough to acknowledge the mother of his daughter born out of wedlock.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
In trying to do my own research I have come across two portraits of Marguerite of V. And there is a close resemblance. The script of the notice is scholarly and elegant. I have recently been working on 18th and 19th century manuscripts and this script is much superior.
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

You are very knowledgeable.

It is often easy to tell customers if their painting is not authenticate.

It is much harder, in fact, impossible, to authenticate online a painting as old as yours.

That is why I have asked all these questions.

I feel safe in saying that you should invest in having an appraiser examine your potentially valuable painting under magnifying glass and/or ultraviolet light in person.

Please tell me a large city near you to help me find an appraiser within driving distance of your home.

Kind regards,

Doris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thank you so much. Dublin is my nearest City. I am about 120 Kilometres from Dublin. I took the picture some years ago to the Fine Art Auctioneer in Durrow but he was unable/unwilling to commit. I also was in touch with Christies and they were likewise. I do have copies of 17th century portraits but it is quite clear from their descriptions that they are copies made in the early 18th century.
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

Are you in Australia?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No. I am in Ireland of which Dublin is the capital city.
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

I am in Southeast USA.

It may take me a while.

You may need to take your painting to an appraiser service that has ultraviolet capability.

I am very surprised Christie's did not take more interest.

I thank you for your continuing patience.

Kind regards,

Doris

Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

National Gallery in Dublin:

http://www.nationalgallery.ie/contactus.aspx

National Museum of Ireland:
http://www.museum.ie/The-Collections

Art Experts Appraisal Services: See they will be in Ireland on right of this page.

https://www.artexpertswebsite.com/locations/art-experts-uk.php

The two museums may not offer authentication but perhaps they should be able to direct you to a service.

It appears the last contact does appraise. I think they are your best chance.

Otherwise, my advice is to crate it and take it to a service in England that one of the Dublin museums might suggest. You could take it to the Victoria & Albert. I am sure they offer the services you need. I would not ship it. I have seen paintings get damaged even in crates.

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Kind regards,

Doris

Doris and other Antiques Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Doris replied 1 year ago.

Thank you so much for the positive rating and bonus! If you have questions in the future, please request me by typing “For Doris only” as the first three words of the question. Most professionals on the site will honor that request.

Thank you again.