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Kelly
Kelly, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 21180
Experience:  Technician with over 30 years of experience.
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My 14 year old SGV56A03GB/40 integrated dishwasher stopped

Customer Question

My 14 year old SGV56A03GB/40 integrated dishwasher stopped in mid cycle and none of the display lights are now showing in the door-edge control panel. The bottom of the machine was full of dirty water. Some heat was evident. I have tested the supply plug fuse and this has not failed.
The on-off button has been misbehaving somewhat in recent weeks, requiring a sharp push and quick removal of the finger persuade it to click on. Before ordering a new switch from eSpares, I want to access the on-off switch to inspect it and test it. Advice on what to dismantle would be appreciated. Note that I have previous experience of repairs to this machine = repairing a dry joint on the main control PCB and cleaning the float switch which detects water in the flat pan underneath the washing chamber.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Appliance
Expert:  Kelly replied 1 year ago.
Hi, welcome to Just Answer. My name is ***** ***** I look forward to helping you! Please know that I am not compensated for my time by the site until you rate using the stars at the top of your page. A rating is appreciated once we get to the solution for your appliance issue, thanks! I would suspect the main power switch to be faulty if you have verified power to the appliance. I will get you the information for accessing it. Please allow me just a few minutes to prepare some information for you, thank you!
Expert:  Kelly replied 1 year ago.
Remove screws from inner door panel and separate the panels to gain access to the switch. See the attached page, switch a1. Test contacts 1-2, 3-4 and 5-6 for continuity when the switch is in the ON position. If one reads open, the switch is faulty. Be sure to turn the power off at the mains before disassembling the doors! Please let me know if you have additional questions or need clarification. There is no additional charge for any follow up help! Please remember to rate before you leave, using the stars at the top of the page. If you have any other questions, please let me know! You may continue asking follow-up questions until you have all the information you need, even after rating my service. Thank you!
Expert:  Kelly replied 1 year ago.
Glad you got it, nice work! Please let me know if you have additional questions or need clarification. There is no additional charge for any follow up help! Please remember to rate before you leave, using the stars at the top of the page. If you have any other questions, please let me know! You may continue asking follow-up questions until you have all the information you need, even after rating my service. Thank you!
Kelly, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 21180
Experience: Technician with over 30 years of experience.
Kelly and other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The question was not in fact resolved. I received the replacement on-off switch from eSpares and found the same pair of contacts (5-6 when viewed on the connection face with connections at the bottom) were open circuit when the switch was in the lower = ON position, when contacts 1-2 and 3-4 are made (i.e. Zero resistance by meter). Returned the switch to eSpares as defective. The second replacement switch has arrived this morning and is exactly the same, i.e. Contacts 1-2 and 3-4 are 'made' but contacts 5-6 are open circuit with black push rod in the lower position = ON.
HAVE I RECEIVED TWO IDENTICALLY DEFECTIVE SWITCHES or do we have a misunderstanding?
Expert:  Kelly replied 1 year ago.
Are you sure you are measuring correctly? The wiring diagram clearly shows the 5/6 contacts closing when button is pushed to the ON position.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I totally agree about the wiring diagram. With the replacement switch lying on the table and the black push rod set to the ON position (i.e. slightly lower that it is in the OFF position), contacts 1-2 measure 0 ohms on my multimeter. Contacts 3-4 measure 0 ohms and contacts 5-6 measure open circuit. I then tried holding the black push rod down (slightly lower) at the same time as measuring contacts 5-6 and the resistance fell to 0 ohms. I therefore fitted the new switch into position in the machine, i.e. located between the three bent lugs and plugged in the 6-way connector until the two small plastic extensions latched over the locators on the switch. Switched on power; no lights come on on the top edge of the panel. The 13A fuse in the plug is OK and there is power at the socket.I am considering simply shorting 1-2, 3-4 & 5-6 with fine wire to be absolutely certain that the switch is the problem. It just seems strange that two replacement switches have shown the same defect and indeed that the observation of the same contact conditions in the original switch was what led me to scrap it and order a new one. For interest I dismantled the original switch and noted that moving contacts 5-6 'make' about 2mm behind contacts 1-2 and 3-4. Hence if the latching arrangement which is effected by the shape of the two moulded halves of the switch casing is slightly too high in the stroke of the black push rod, it must be possible to get what I am observing - i.e. 5-6 make contact if pushed fully down but break when the push rod retracts to its latched position.Therefore the evidence suggests that I have indeed received two defective replacement switches. Do you agree?Although I could operate the dishwasher by connecting the pairs of contacts with fine wire and using the power socket switch for On/Off operation, this would not provide the small delay between contacts 1-2 & 3-4 closing and contacts 5-6 closing.N.B.IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY MARKINGS ON THE SWITCH ITSELF, MY NUMBERING OF THE CONTACTS WAS SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY. I do not have the wiring diagram, which presumably would show the wire colours and enable me to identify which is contact 1. However, what I am calling contact 1 has two red-white wires (one heavier than the other) inserted in the 6-way plug. The thinner wire leads to the door switch; contact 2 has one heavy blue wire = N on the schematic; contact 3 has one grey/black wire and one white wire which loops directly to my contact 6; contact 4 has one heavy brown wire = L1 on the schematic; contact 5 has one heavy brown wire and contact 6 has the white loop wire from contact 3 and a white wire which leads off with the other six wires into the general taped-together harness. Therefore I think that my numbering convention agrees with that on the schematic. And therefore the last contacts to make on pressing the switch to ON (my contacts 5-6) connect L1 via the white loop wire to contact 5. I do not understand the "Modul K1 + K2 + K3" ( and K4 dotted rectangle) part of the schematic, but imagine that the vertical black rectangles represent the edge contacts on the main control board and hence contact 5 supplies the live feed to edge contact 20 (numbering from left) slightly later than contact 3 supplies the live feed to the five wires connected to m5 (water switch), f1 (level switch), e6 (float switch) --> s2 (filling valve), s1 (regenerating valve) and the square box situated below K1 on the schematic.
Expert:  Kelly replied 1 year ago.
I am sure you are testing it fine if you read the first two sets. It has to be switch related but indeed very odd.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
At £36.80 (typical exorbitant spares price!) I am not wanting to dismantle the second spare received today I must therefore return it to eSpares. It would perhaps help if I could quote you as agreeing with me that the switch is defective. One suspects that the supplier may have copied the design from an original as supplied to Bosch and others but hasn't recognised the timing aspect of the contacts. Maybe I should cancel my order, get a refund and re-order from Bosch - if they supply spares for a 14 year old appliance. I think I have read that they only guarantee to supply spares for ten years, from what date was not clear.
Do you consider any damage might be done if I energise all three contacts simultaneously by wiring them together in pairs and then switching on the supply and/or by manually energising 1-2 & 3-4 followed by 5-6 at a short interval but probably longer than the designed delay?
Expert:  Kelly replied 1 year ago.
I am not sure about the delay on the 5/6 contacts, the diagram does not really show that. I am going to see if another has run across this before.
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
Did you order the part from Espares using a Bosch part number?
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
Regarding the price for the switch I assume the £36.80p is for the two switches as the cost of one switch directly from Bosch is £26.36p
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
OK I have the information that you need when you are ready
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I ordered one switch from eSpares by entering the model number (SGV56A03BG/40) and then selecting the on/off switch from the parts available. The replacement appears identical: it has the same number and name moulded into the face opposite to the 6 spade socket: 4783/12 4 and Dreefs - presumably the manufacturer's name. There are differing identities on the face with the socket: the original has the following ink jet printed on face at the other end from the socket: 1-DPS/235 A200802 on one line and 5600.001.358 on the second line. The replacement has moulded characters 16(4) A 250 V~ just below the socket and T125/55 on the next line with a logo partly obscured by a white adhesive label but which seems to be EN05, with the EN italicised at about 40degrees and joined to the obscured letters (possibly EG or FG which slope backwards so that the two lines form a sort of arrow head. The adhesive label is printed 1-DPS/235 on the first line and 5600.001.358 on the second line. Also below these lines and in smaller font is D 2612.
The price from eSpares for one switch is £36.80 + £3.99 delivery. I have now re-ordered from Bosch at the £26.36 price. Caveat emptor. In checking the eSpares price I have just noticed that they state "Manufactured by Siemens" - so they are not a Chinese copy as I was beginning to suspect.
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
OK if the part number that you ordered was 00165886 then you have the correct part for your appliance?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Your message that you have the information has appeared while I was typing mine, interrupted by a phone call from my daughter. I am at home and will look at my iPad every few minutes.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
My phone number is ***** 620202 if a conversation is preferable.
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
Kindly leave this with me for a few minutes and I will come back to you shortly.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Burnt joint on track face of PCB. Haven't worked out how to split the assembly to view the underside of the board, but component leg is quite hefty. Cleaned & re-soldered leg-track joint but the only improvement is a 'clunk' when on/off switch pushed down. No lights appear. The clunk suggests that my repaired joint is OK but the lack of lights that the associated component has failed. Since I cannot open the assembly, I cannot see the component or read the silk screen printed component ID.
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
Its a case of undoing the connectors and then taking the board out of its plastic enclosure noting where the buttons etc go beforehand .
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks. I had removed the connectors already but have now managed to identify the method of safely splitting the enclosure. The defective joint is below Module K1 - as was the dry joint which I had some time ago, also resolved with guidance from JustAnswer. The component K1 appears to be a potted relay (?), since it is rated at 10A / 250VAC. It is labelled SHC. SRE303006 (same as K2, K3 & K4) and Coil: 6VDC. There is no sign of overheating of the white package. I can try to change the component but obviously am unable to test the board. Have you been able to locate a suitable repairer and will such a repairer have the test machine & software to test the complete PCB?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
You specifically encouraged me to persist with a repair on the basis that this is a "real" (German built) Bosch machine and "not a cheap Chinese one". If I eventually opt to replace the machine, do you have any recommendation/s?
I assume that the question of switching my payment is pending some response from Just Answer in the Sky?
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
Regarding the two companies that we use they are --www.qer.biz & www.emwelec.co.uk both of whom repair Bosch products on our behalf. Now on the question of payment - if you wish to change the payment from the original poster to me then you have to post on here that you wish for this to be done. Or if you would rather I send you an email address and you can send an email to Head Office. Either will do the job - Ian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Please provide the emi address. If preferred my email address is:***@******.***
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
I have passed your request on to my moderator who will deal with your requiest. Thanks for your consideration - Ian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have ordered two replacement relays from RS Components after reading various people's adventures repairing similar Bosch PCB's. The pin out is identical as are the main parameters. If my repair fails to resolve the problem, I think there is little option but to replace the machine. Assuming the repair is successful, I will watch out for a suitable graded machine and decide whether/when to replace the existing machine on the basis that three major failures (previously another overheated joint on the same K1 module and an overflowing float switch in the LH side polythene labyrinth - due to gunge in the downstream duct - which was causing the drain pump to start each time the machine was switched on) is enough warning.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
P.S. I did go to www.emwelec.co.uk but it looked like a £60 repair which I do not consider sensible; www.qer.biz didn't work at all.
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 1 year ago.
Well I guess the price depends on your perception, the cost of a new control module is £123 from Bosch I have just tried the QER address and it works for me, you could try this - http://www.qer.biz/servReps.htm this takes you straight to the module section. If its not listed it doesnt mean they dont repair it !!

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