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Dales-Electronic
Dales-Electronic, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 1463
Experience:  I am a Home Appliance / Refrigeration Technician of 25yrs+ with my own business and for multi-brand national companies.
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My built-in Belling IDW604 dishwasher does not wash the

Customer Question

My built-in Belling IDW604 dishwasher does not wash the lower tray. The spray arm doesn't rotate and no water comes out of it. The upper spray am is OK. Is there a controlling solenoid of pump I can replace? Are both spray arms (upper and lower) operated via the same solenoid or pump - if so something is blocking the lower spray arm.
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Appliance
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Can you give me the product code please and I'll have a look at the diagrams and come back to you - Ian

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
T last I have found the right place to reply! Where do I find the 'Product Code'? please? Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Is this Product Code: IDW604? That's the only 'code' I can find. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

You should have a product code on the rating label starting with either 4, 5 or 7, as an example it could be###-##-#### ***** IDW604 is just a model number that tells me its a integrated dishwasher 60 cm wide version 4 it doesnt actually tell me its specifications.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Please would you advise me where to find this 'Product Code'? All I have are the Installation and Instruction Manuals left by the installer in 2005. Thanks. Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I need to know where I should find the 'Rating Label'. Does this involve taking the machine out of its niche under the worktop? Or is it on the door - under the wooden matching panel?
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have withdrawn the dishwasher a few inches out from its 'niche' and found a narrow label with a bar-code and a 17 digit number: 09338000199108218. Am I getting warmer? Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Are you still monitoring this, Ian??
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Sorry just back from work - OK without the product data I'm going to have to do some research will come back to you in about 15 mins or so.

Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

OK I just had to check something before responding as there are variations on the built in units. Do you have the user handbook or has that been lost?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have two 'Manuals' the 'Instruction Manual' and the 'Installation Manual' which also includes a Glen Dimplex Home Appliance 'Installation and Fitting advice forbuilt-under integrated Dishwashers - which short list includes my Belling IDW 604. In extracting the dishwasher to find that 'Part Number' I have rendered it inoperable. It's a very tight fit and difficult to get at the water inlet to disconnect it - in order to fully withdraw it. Is this necessary for finding that number? Or can you tell me where it is? Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

No I have found what I wanted and for future reference the product code for your appliance is###-##-####/p>

If you refer to page 2 of the handbook it states -- under control pane - l button 4 Half Washing Key-press. Selecting this feature means that the lower spray arm does not run, only the upper spray bar.

I think perhaps this is your problem??

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Well done for spotting this, Ian. I have written this 'Part Number' on ther front of my Instruction Manual. I will make the machine operational and try your suggestion. There must be an indicator to show this 'half-washing' feature has been selected. I will look into that when the machine is up and running again and report back. Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have been evicted from the Kitchen whilst my wife is cooking dinner . . . Get back to yopu later Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Laughs - why do you think I'm sitting in the office doing this - 'this is my kitchen darling go do some work was the recent reply' come back to me when you have time to check things. I'm back on tomorrow if you miss me later.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Saturday. Up at 6:00am to get the Dishwasher back in place and level. OK by 7:30am Now testing. Results: No 'error' numbers light up. The 1/2 light has never been 'on' - we never use it. Have put it into ECO mode and have tried in 1/2 mode and the indicator for 1/2 mode lights up - noting the position of the lower spray arm. When the main washing cycle starts I open the door to check the lower spray arm. It hasn't moved - as expected from using 1/2 mode. Turn off power. Turn on power again and select ECO (the 1/2 mode is not lit, I don't select it and leave it that way) note the position of the lower spray arm. Start machine and wait until main washing power activates. Open door. Only the upper spray arm is rotating. This concludes my test. Result: We still have the original problem of non-activation of the lower spray arm. Over to you, Ian. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

OK in that case the circulating pump which is fitted with the diverter valve, the main pcb or the wiring between the two is faulty. If the pump is not receiving a voltage from the main pcb or the wires between the two are broken where they pass at 90degrees under the door the valve will not be energised.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Thank you Ian. So what should I - or even 'could I' - do now? Considering the age of this beast is it a case of 'write-off' in your opinion? b.t.w. Ervin R. of Customer Support chipped in on this and I copied him in with the latest morning report. I am happy to continue working with you, Ian, as it seems to be within your area of expertise. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Don't know who he is must be based in the USA - this is what I would do - make up a lead with a spade connector on the neutral and live. Then you will have to take the appliance out again and lay it on its back - take the base of taking care not to damage the flood protecton switch that is attached to the base with two screws. Now check that you have no wires frayed as the cables swing under the door and into the base area. Come back to me when youve got both the cable made up and checked the wires.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ian - 1). should these 'spade' connectors be at both ends of a twin core cable? 2): how long should this cable be? 3): are these spade connectors male or female or both? 4): does this new cable replace the frayed one? 5): what is the ideal size and type of cable to use here? I don't have a stock of this type of thing and shall have to get to Maplins - or - on-line - to do so. I cannot remove the machine and leave it lying around while I hunt these parts up so a bit of advice on those questions would be gratefully received. Thanks. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

OK 13amp plug on the end of one end of a piece of old three core cable at least .75mm on the other end strip back the outer sheath to expose the three wires N L E Now put two female 6.3mm spade connectors on the end. I want to test the diverter valve on the circulating pump.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
OK. I see this is just a test procedure - not a permanent fix. I just happen to have a length of TWO core cable - N L - and two 6.3mm female spade connectors will this do for the test if one isn't using an E?
Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
this 2 core already has a 13amp. plug on it.
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Copy and paste the following link into your browser - if you look at the lower picture you will see a black circular thing with two metal spade connectors sticking out of the top ?? -- https://www.partmaster.co.uk/dishwasher/idw604-444445898/recirculation-pump/product.pl?pid=1397677&shop=belling&path=297877&refine=pump&model_ref=440857

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I see that. And this recirculating pump is what has gone wrong in my machine? Quite likely. There's sometimes a lot of water in the bottom of the IDW604 following its use - though, following that latest 1/2: non-1/2 test there's no water in the bottom. Very odd. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

OK noting where the solenoid valve cables are fitted (two of them) remove and connect up your flying lead, not too improtant which terminal goes to which tag then connect to the main and tell me if you hear a buzz?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Could you advise whether it is this recirculating pump which causes the hot water to come out of the spray arms to wash the dishes etc? If so, then there's nothing wrong with that pump for that does happen. However since at no time does water come out of the lower spray arms I can't quite get my mind around the circuitry involved - unless that pump is servicing two functions? Looking at the price of a replacement pump and considering the age of the dishwasher it would seem appropriate to replace the machine than to start spending money on repairs and parts. The next thing that goes will probably be the PCB . . . . etc. Like a washing machine, the dishwasher is working in an unfriendly environment where soldered connections and PCB's corrode - particularly connectors! How do you react to this? Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

You have a diverter valve fitted to the circulation pump that feeds water to both the top and bottom spray bars. If an electric supply does not power up the solenoid valve (that I have asked you to test) and open the gate then you will only get water coming out of one spray bar.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
OK. I understand.I'll get onto this on Monday when I am alone and not bothering anyone! I shall listen out for that Buzz you speak of and let you know! This machine is Very Difficult to remove due to the necessity of shortening the front legs to enable extraction and the shortness of the associated plumbing to waste and supply points. In the event that 'Diverter Valve' is defective ( and this sounds like the culprit!) is a replacement available at reasonable cost? Thanks, ***** ***** keeping up with me - appreciated. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

We may find that the diverter valve is OK or that its coil has gone open circuit, if so we can work around it and get you up and running again once we know what the problem is - speak to you on Monday - have a great weekend.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Thanks, ***** ***** Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Good Monday morning, Ian. Before I start connecting my 'fly-lead' to the solenoid for this test, please confirm that this is a 240v solenoid? Reason: I have a 0 - 240v A/C 'Variac' so I can apply whatever voltage you deem best. No rush - I haven't got the machine out yet - just made morning tea! Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Its 220-240 volt solenoid Michael. On my second pot of tea takes my eyes a couple to get going (laughs)

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
OK. Second large mug just going down. I seem to have 'lost' your instruction relating to the careful handling of the machine during extraction and the proper placement of it for the test I am to apply. I will not fully extract the machine until I have your advice on this - I might break something! 'Lay it on its 'back' or 'front' and be careful of ' x.x.x.x ' which is screwed to the base... ?All I remember. Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have just found your instruction: 21/05/2016 10:15
Dales-Electronic Dales-Electronic Appliance Technician
Don't know who he is must be based in the USA - this is what I would do - make up a lead with a spade connector on the neutral and live. Then you will have to take the appliance out again and lay it on its back - take the base of taking care not to damage the flood protecton switch that is attached to the base with two screws. Now check that you have no wires frayed as the cables swing under the door and into the base area. Come back to me when youve got both the cable made up and checked the wires.
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Must have been a system glitch Michael but rest assured I am based in the UK - its the middle of the night way out there (its when we get the peace and tranquility) so how are we doing?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
No worries here on the South Coast - that bit about 'whoever' was just a bit of that particular message - the important part showed that I had found your instructions about placement and certain 'care'. Now I have to extract the dishwasher without getting water everywhere, and lay it on its back. May be some time as breakfast comes into it as well. Tell you when done and result of test. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Good man - I think what happens is that the calls are directed to the American server first and then back to the UK one and things get lost 'in the post' so to speak. I will be heading off to work at 10am so if I miss you I will catch up later I should be back at about 2-30pm

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
11:30 am Monday. I have JUST managed to fully extract the IDW604 from its niche and it is standing on a piece of 3ply just large enough. I tell you, Ian, the very first thing I'm going to do is make a dedicated spanner to fit those back 'legs'. They are merely long bolts which only have a single 'flat' and it is Very Awkward Indeed to manipulate any form of adjustable spanner in there. So close to the ground it is one can only see with one eye so focussing is not possible. Having made this spanner (by filing out a smaller spanner to fit) I shall then be in a fit state to carry out this test. It Is Important I am able to return the machine in its niche, so the dedicated spanner is First on the list. Then to listen for that 'buzzzz'. Get back to you soon I hope! Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Now with a spanner to fit the back legs (bolts), I have the IDW604 on its back and am presented with a bottom plate having four peripheral Very Small cross-head screws - and two other screws which must be for that 'flood protection switch' you mentioned. However Belling do not seem to be DIY-Friendly with these four small retaining screws for they are So Small I have to use my Lap-Top Phillips screw-driver to anywhere near fit them. But I cannot, with such a small screw-driver, exert sufficient torque to loosen these screws. What do You do in this situation? Apply a hot soldering iron to the heads to break any bonding? Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

No usually there are no problems if you use a No1 philips screwdriver

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I take it you did not get my reply on Monday to the fact I have tested that Solenoid with the 'fly' lead and it Buzzes. There's no evidence to suggest a frayed cable at that 90 deg. turn under the door for the two wiring looms are encapsulated and cannot be seen. I have replaced the four domed screws with computer case hex/Philips self-tapping screws and all is well there. The spade terminals I found have locking devices and, with a pair of pliers, are easily separated - so that flood sensor is re-attached to the base panel. Where do I go from here? The machine is pushed, on its back, into the recess but is much in the way and I need to finish this repair or replace the machine. Your web-site is frequently unobtainable and I am left 'in limbo' Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

OK with the cable still connected to the solenoid but hanging out the back and the original cables insulated and out of the way put the dishwasher on and see if both spray bars are now rotating - give it a minute or two to get circulating. If they are then you have to follow the cables up from the solenoid to the main pcb in the door and check that you have continuity to the board. The fact that the cables are covered doesnt mean that the cable hasnt broken - the constant flexing is enough to break them.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Work in Progress. My Ohm meter tells me the 'flood switch' contacts are 'made' until water causes it to float upwards, then the contacts 'break'. Since the base is off I will first connect the two female spade contacts together. Then to proceed as per your instructions.
Q1: In order to get at the PCB for continuity checks to the various points in the base, do I need to remove the matching wood trim from the door-front or does that door come apart to reveal the PCB without removing this? That wood panel is VERY reluctant to remove even though the two screws under their door caps on either side of the door are removed.
Due to the main pump and other components being 'proud' of the rim to which the base plate is connected, I need to insert the rear 'leg-bolts' and stand the front of the dishwasher on a block of timber. I have inserted two large rubber grommets in the base to help support these 'leg'bolts' during 'verticalisation' of the machine.
Q1: In order to get at the PCB for continuity checks to the various points in the base, do I need to remove the matching wood trim from the door-front or does that door come apart to reveal the PCB without removing this? That wood panel is VERY reluctant to remove even though the two screws under their door caps on either side of the door are removed.
Q2: Did you receive my messages yesterday? Your website showed you as unobtainable. Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have carried out the test. That Solenoid is humming away, the machine is upright an connected. Now I have found out why the rear 'leg-bolts' have to be adjustable ! in order to clamp the top of the machine to the underside of the work-top - otherwise . . . . . it all falls over when the door is opened. Result of test: Only the Top spray-bar operates on any setting. When a wash is selected, the rted indicator for that wash flashes when the door is closed and continues to flash. Is this normal? I haven't seen this before since the indicator lights are hidden under the front of the worktop when the machine is in position.
Again I am getting your web-site as 'unobtainable'. Does this mean that any replies I make are not received by you? This is the message I get (please comment else I just don't know whether you are receiving me or not!)This site can’t be reachedwww.justanswer.co.ukhttp’s server DNS address could not be found.Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

OK if you have no supply through the spray bar when the valve is energized by seperate lead then the circulating pump is faulty. It a new pump Im afraid, time for a think I guess - the dishwasher is quite old and made in China for Belling. I think we have gone as far as we can so would you kindly rate the information given by selecting from the star rating system at the top of the page. Once done you can come back to me at any time for furter help if needed. Thank you for using JA and have a good day - Ian

Dales-Electronic, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 1463
Experience: I am a Home Appliance / Refrigeration Technician of 25yrs+ with my own business and for multi-brand national companies.
Dales-Electronic and other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Thank you Ian. You have mirrored my feelings. I guess we can use just the top tray in the mean-time. Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Well, Ian, in the event we couldn't use the machine at all as the back leg-bolts wouldn't return enough to allow the machine back in its cavity. So the machine is a write-off and needs replacing. I didn't realise it was made in China - but the steel of which it is made is extremely malleable. I now need to find a suitable replacement even though I have just found this Belling is actually only seven years old. Any suggestions for a suitable replacement machine? Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
the back leg-bolts screw into an inaccessible place. I believe the plastic 'rawl-plug' nut was poorly anchored to the frame and revolved when screwing the leg-bolts back in place. Bad design. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Without a doubt Bosch when it comes to dishwasher they are about as good as you get for the vast majority of other makes they are rebadged Chinese Midea like you own.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ian - I have just found, by chance, the location of that elusive Part Number. It is printed on a stuck-on label on the Right Hand side of the stainless door lining. The placement of the machine in our kitchen made seeing this very unlikely. But I thought you'd like to know this. The Serial No. 90728218 pre cedes the Part No. you gave me. I am currently attempting removal of that wooden door-trim and it seems I must remove the inner lining of the door to do so . . . Any comment? Tea-time Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Late Breakfast! But, before that here's the latest update. It was necessary to remove the entire front panel by removing all peripheral screws from the inner stainless lining. I even saw the PCB in there - but this is purely academic as the machine is a write-off. How flimsily it is constructed! The wooden 'aesthetic' panel had been secured not only by the screws under those two white caps (which would have been sufficient) but by two screws driven in through both bottom L & R corners - so I was also fighting the door weight-assist springs - eventually I slackened them with an Allen key. I saw a Bosch SMV40C00GB on-line on Gumtree for £190 but although reported "Unused, New, Excess to requirements from a Kitchen re-build" I am reluctant to save £60 to find it doesn't work . . . or something, after having collected it from London. Now I can get back to my project of transferring M&GN Circle Meetings from Reel-to-Reel to the Studio Digital Hard Drive and then editing. You're in Boston - with its 'stump' - (viewed from Hunstanton) so you must know of the M&GN Railway. Michael
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ian - I am investigating the reason for my inability to adjust the rear legs and I found the answer on page 6 of the Installation Manual. There is a pair of 45 degree cogs involved on each rear leg one of which is mounted on a long spindle extending out to the front of the machine and terminating in a Philips head socket. So the legs are raised and lowered using a Philips head screw-driver at the front of the machine to turn a spindle, on the rear end of which is a 'flat' on which is mounted one of the two 45 deg. cogs. The other 45 deg. cog which engages it has a 5/16" Whitworth tapped hole and is mounted on the leg - it being a 5/16" Whitworth thread. Devilish cunning. I wish I had been aware of this before I bothered to make that special spanner! You have that Installation Manual - do have a look! But the machine is still a write-off none-the-less. Now it's tea-time. Michael
Expert:  Dales-Electronic replied 10 months ago.

Yes and the legs spindley too - quite often the kitchen fitters seem to tighten up so tight that the cogs start to jump as you try to undo them too. To be honest not a very robust machine or design.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Agreed - far from robust - but there isn't a lock-nut on the rear legs, only on the front. And due to the fact the raising and lowering system was broken on those rear legs I had to adjust them 'approximately' with the machine about half-way in since I could only, and with difficulty, manipulate my modified spanner between the legs of adjoining kitchen units. However the end result is that we have a temporary reprieve from buying a new Bosch until after Half-term holidays - as I've managed to get the Belling working again - if only on the top basket. The water filters through enough from there to wash the cutlery basket and some appropriately positioned plates in the lower basket and that pump still drains the machine. Thanks for your reply, Ian. Michael

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