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Mark
Mark, Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 1504
Experience:  Qualified City & Guilds
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I have a range rover sport v8 super charger converted with

Customer Question

I have a range rover sport v8 super charger converted with LPG gas , it's great no problems , my head casket had to be replaced with farnells , the first time they worked with a LPG . They charged for 6 hours labour to disconnect and reconnect , I have been had , the LPG centre said this would take 1 hour in total ??? I'm wanting to know why they took six hours and it no longer runs on gas , help any advice please .. Thank you debbie
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Mark replied 2 years ago.

Mark :

Hello, my name is Mark and I will try help you.

Mark :

There are two headgaskets on your engine. To replace one takes 12 hours. To replace both is over 14 hours.

Mark :

I don't know why you were told it would take 1 hour to replace them. It would take 1 hour to test them.

Mark :

I also don't know why you were charged only 6 hours to replace the headgaskets when any garage would be justified in charging at least double.

Mark :

Now to your main question. Have you been done.

Mark :

All I can say to that is there is definitely something wrong with the advice and work you have been given from both sides.

Mark :

You really need an itemised bill for the work that was done by the garage. I would also advise you get an itemised quote from the garage that quoted it would only take an hour.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

Hi Mark,

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

No, it was six hours to disconnect and re-connect the lpg fuel system; this was on top of 16 hours to fix the head gaskets. they were told before the car went in that it had lpg conversion. they did not say they had no experience of lpg. they did not even test it after they had re-connected it! and now they say it might not have been working before it went in! in addition, the steering is now very stiff and unresponsive and pulls to the right. I have had the tyres re-aligned but this has not fixed the problem.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

we have a full itemised bill , which quotes 6 hours for disconnection and reconnection for the lpg only , i paid in total 3410.00 for the full job.

Mark :

So not the headgasket.

Mark :

I thought you were paying for a headgasket.

Mark :

If you mean why did the charge 6 hours to remove the LPG system then that would be because they weren't experienced with it and that is the time it took them to do it.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

Hi Mark,

Mark :

Hi

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

As above, I explained we had the head gaskets done and explained to them it was a gas conversion car. they charged 16 hours for the head gaskets and 6 hours for disconnecting and re-connecting the lpg system (8 pipes and few wires, which should take one hour). If they did not know what they were doing they should not have done the job? they breached H&S rules accepting the job? and they did not test the car after supposedly putting it back together! and the steering system now is faulty which I can only assume happened when they took the car apart?

Mark :

The 16 hours they charged for the head job is not that excessive. If they added another 6 hours because of the LPG then that could be excessive. However, I don't believe they have breached any H&S rules in accepting the job.

Mark :

What didn't they test after doing the job?

Mark :

What is now wrong with the steering?

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

you have to be trained to fit lpg systems and prove that you have been trained. you also have to do a risk assessment. I do not believe they have either.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

they claim they did not have to test the gas after doing the job! as above, the steering is heavy, unresponsive and pulls to the right. it was perfect before it went in

Mark :

Yes, but that doesn't stop you taking on the job. Parts of the work can be sub-contracted. It also only applies if you have to disconnect the gas line.

Mark :

You can do a lot of work without having to disconnect the supply line.

Mark :

The extra 6 hours could be argued as the price for a sub-contractor coming in.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

they disconnected it all. they claimed they had to disconnect everything. supposedly the whole chassis has to come off to replace the head gaskets, inclduing break-lines, screen wash, and hydraulics. it would have taken 1 hour for a sub-contractor

Mark :

I could argue with you it would take more than 1 hour

Mark :

You can include travelling time to the job on day 1 to remove the system.

Mark :

45 mins to remove it as he would have to work in a strange environment and around others on the same job.

Mark :

He then has to travel back to his base.

Mark :

He then has to come back to refit the system and travel back to his base when finished.

Mark :

Could easily be 6 hours charge.

Mark :

That would be a valid argument to cost and H&S

Mark :

I'm not saying the garage have not made mistakes but if you are going to use certain arguments against them you have to be aware of what they might answer back to justify.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

Mark, they did not use a sub contractor, they did it themselves, clearly without any training on lpg. they phoned the people who did the original conversion and they were told how to do it. these people advise it can easily be done in an hour. and they are 30 minutes away, so it could have sub-contracted to them. do you have any experience of range rover sport 06? is it necessary to disconnect brakes, hydraulics, screen wash? would this affect the steering? would you not test the car after you have had it apart?

Mark :

They could also argue that the LPG system either didn't work or was not tested when the vehicle came in as it wasn't relevant to the fault and your complaint is the LPG is faulty but not the headgasket.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

????? they disconnected the lpg and it no longer works! and they grossly overcharged for the pleasure!?

Mark :

I'm not disputing that.

Mark :

I'm only saying if it went to court they could argue. The proof has to come from you and you weren't present during all the work to say what they had done.

Mark :

If there was a fault with the headgasket then you would have more leverage.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

would changing the head gaskets affect the steering system in any way? if they had to disconnect the hydraulics, servo, breaks etc. then could this affect the steering.

Mark :

They have to partially remove the steering pump but not open the hydraulics.

Mark :

They might have done though.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

well they charged us for 2 x hydraulic fluid, brake fluid and screen wash using the argument that they had to disconnect it all. I take it you have no range rover sport experience?

Mark :

They would also have to evacuate the air con system. This again could be sub-contract work they have charged for.

Mark :

Not recent experience but did work on them for 4 yrs

Mark :

I am also a master technician, used to fit LPG systems before you needed to be certified and also a semi-finalist for the last two yrs for the top technician uk competeition

Mark :

I would consider myself qualified.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

they did not touch the air con system - we have had a detailed invoice and discussions with them. the subcontract work they charged for was to skim the heads (£208). could touching the hydraulics, servo, brake system affect the steering? in your experience then, how long would it take to disconnect the lpg fuel pipes and reconnect? what would you charge for?

Mark :

What is wrong with the steering.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

as before, it is heavy, unresponsive, stiff, pulling to the right. I need your expert input to this, Mark as I am a solicitor putting a legal case together to take this through the courts. I do not have the mechanical expertise, but I have the experience to put a case together if I can get the right witness evidence or advice. thanks

Mark :

Ok.

Mark :

Is there a fault with the brakes?

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

not that can be ascertained; they seem fine

Mark :

Ok

Mark :

When doing this job they could have done it two ways. One was to do it with the engine in place and the other is to take the engine out.

Mark :

It could be argued that removing the engine could be easier but take a bit more time. Taking the engine out would also mean disconnecting some steering and braking systems.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

they took the chassis off, but the engine remains in place. however, to remove the chassis, allegedly they have to disconnect the brakes, the hydraulics and event he screen wash etc.!

Mark :

Leaving the engine in would normally mean just disconnecting the steering pump but not opening the hydraulics. However, both methods would still need the AC to be drained and refilled after.

Mark :

Dropping the chassis is effectively the same as taking the engine out.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

odd that they did not charge for ac fluid then?

Mark :

Yes

Mark :

They don't actually charge for fluid.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

?they charge for screen wash!

Mark :

But they would charge for evacuation and refill.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

they didn't

Mark :

Some garages actually charge every job for that.

Mark :

It comes under consumables.

Mark :

You would need to prove they didn't put any in.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

every single item is itemised, down to bolts, screen wash fluid, brake fluid, gaskets, but no mention of AC drainage and refill

Mark :

You would need to ask why.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

I dont need to prove they did or did not touch the AC; I just need to know if the process could affect the steering.

Mark :

But they could say they were doing you a favour in keeping costs down.

Mark :

Dropping the subframe could affect the steering.

Mark :

They should check and adjust the wheel alignment after doing this.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

ok, thanks. so the steering issue could be down to removing the chassis (equivalent of dropping the sub frame). But we had the wheels aligned at a different garage and it is not remedying the problem.

Mark :

This could be a totally different issue with the garage that did the alignment. Did they check the thrust line first and then adjust the steering to compensate for it. Most don't.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

ok, dont know. but again, if it is a known issue, I think Farnells should have checked (as well as the lpg system( this before releasing the car!

Mark :

You can argue that point.

Mark :

You're a lawyer. You would know that better than me lol.

JACUSTOMER-fs1hcf7j- :

ok thanks mark. will print this out and see if I can use it lol.

Mark :

Ok

Mark :

Good luck

Mark :

Please remember to rate my assistance.

Mark :

Thanks.

Mark :

Mark.

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