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Robert
Robert, UK Qualified Car Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 4568
Experience:  Fully qualified / self employed garage technician in the UK
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Hi, can you advise me please. I am seriously considering buying

Resolved Question:

Hi, can you advise me please. I am seriously considering buying a Shogun 2007. Am I correct in thinking they have timing chains rather than belts (?or some combination of both) and the key issue is how often should these be changed- I note Shoguns do seem to have a bit of a history with these?
Dave
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Car
Expert:  Robert replied 2 years ago.

Hi..

Hopefully i can help..

What engine / size exactly does the Vehicle have?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

3.2 DI-DC Warrior 3dr Auto 2008 79k miles

Expert:  Robert replied 2 years ago.

Hi..there thanks for your reply..

Yes these are the Timing chain engine - single chain from the crank upto the both cam sprockets..quite well known for chain issues as you mention..seen it myself a few times..either failure of the complete chain itself or the more common problem is that upper guide that sits between both cam sprockets both of which if fail can damage the engine in regards ***** ***** or if the chain snaps totally then its a new engine - the upper guide as described these normally wear away the plastic part of the guide and can cause the timing to jump so its well advised during its routine or major service to have that checked and replaced to help aviod that..but as mentioned above they can be known for timing chain issues..id say more on the engine with the chains/guides from new..as appossed to ones that have had the full replacement chain/guide kit fitted...There is no set mileage these should be changed at no timing chain does unless the manufacturer says other wise.unlike the timing belts..chains only really get changed if they become noisey in operation under cold or warm engine running..or they cause a missalignment as per timing where the cam/crank sensor run of spec hence the engine light will come on if thats the case..but if it where me based on the issues with the chains on these engines i would preferably stay clear..but thats my opinion..I do hope this helps...if you need to ask anything else or include anything further then please continue before you rate

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks, ***** ***** it from this that you would be happier if buying one as I am to have the chain and upper guide changed to avoid a problem occurring for the foreseeable future? I am not sure what you mean by stay clear? I am not a mechanic so obviously I hVe no way of really telling if theres an issue but I assume to change these is what, a few hundred? Could you give me a can be very rough guide on this? I don't really know what you mean by stay clear as this issue will apply to any second hand Shogun I buy.

I also am confused regarding the from new versus ones with the replacement chain and guide kit fitted? Was there a re-call? or would you like I had been thinking be happy if either I get the garage to change it before I buy it or pay to get the chain and guide fitted myself straight away or how long ago would be acceptable do you think ? In miles roughly obviously - if it was done at some point say 40k ago would that be ok? Did you see my position? I'm trying to judge what cost to include and I don't know how much it would be if you could give me a guide for parts and labour for this to be done to factor into the buying of the car but also get some guide as to what point changing a chain and guides as these are so costly if fail is sensible as a worth it precaution for peace of mind as well- I'm disabled and relinability is high on my list of priorities- the shogun ticks so many positive boxes it seems to be ideal for me .....(hopefully!!) can you advise further please? ?

Expert:  Robert replied 2 years ago.

Hi..there thanks for your responce..

Ok..as per the my quote in regards ***** ***** clear..normally through experiance of seeing this happen first hand and on recovery..its better to advise folk considering buying one these to maybe think again or look around for an example of the same type 4x4 if you put it that way..there are lots out there besides the Shogun or engine variants such as the 1.8/2.0gdi which is timing belt..but having said that..if you feel it does tick all the boxes..its does have good service history/mot history/ etc and suits you needs and are willing to maybe prevent this problem occuring then thats fine..but nobody can say this will mean the chain once done thats it..like i mention above the upper guide is weak point on them so that has to be addressed even after you even done the chain all the sprockets you name it.no recall im afraid as far as im aware.normally new chain kits supersede the old orgininal.

As per pricing for chain kit..FAI does these around the £200 for a kit..thats an approx as prices do fluctuate alot on car parts.labor costs again this is hard area to be specific on as all garages across the uk differ rates per hour alot..as ball park you would be looking at least a complete days work maybe in the £500-£600 region..as the whole front end of the engine needs stripped down/retimed then the timing kit fitted and then the timing cover mating surfaces cleaned and resealed/front parts all reassembled - then a new coolant and oil & filter change...so its not quick job but easy enough for any well equiped garage..maybe phone around for quotes now and see before you buy the vehicle...I do hope this helps further..if you need to ask anything more then please do so before you rate above

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

That's helpful. I think what it comes down to then is that they are reliable vehicles, but this is the potential weak point. There are no gaur tees even after having the work done it won't fail- but all cars have a risk don't they? If it's in good nick it sounds like I should ask an independent 4x4 specialist to take a look and make a judgement based upon that, as it sounds like the £800 which it will more than likely be will not necessarily get you much security- and what needs to be done is the careful inspection each year to check all is well with the guide and the chain looks in good nick, rather than spend £800 on what technically, may not need changing. Have I got this about right? The only part left I'm uneasy about is the reference you made to replacement kits being different in some ways - but presumably if the plastic part of the guide is changed at service that won't include the whole day's work. So is the answer to get them just to change the guide itself as you said earlier it was in your experience the more common problem, and you clearly do know what your talking about. Am I correct in the guide being changeable at service or by garage now also without incurring great labour time and cost? That sounds like some practical advantage?

Expert:  Robert replied 2 years ago.

Hi..there..

No the upper guide can be replaced by just taking to top cover off to expose the upper chain sprockets..the upper guide sits between the cam sprockets/top..it normally best to have inspected as preventative measure,yearly would be a good idea id say..it would mean the service time being a bit longer to do that but worth while id say..but yes if you know of good 4x4 specialist in the area certainly have the vehicle checked out,its normally the best thing to do when buying a second hand vehicle its to may ask a garage or mobile tech a good one to do a full inspection and check on it..some dealers or private sales might not like that so bear that in mind as long as you ask that first before just having them turn up..thats the only it can be done is to have somebody physically check this over for you which i cant....I do hope this helps

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Yes I won't be easily able to do first but on all usual measures HPI, complete service history via major garage so easier to sue etc and general signs it is a good car. What I will do though is get it specifically re checked when I get the few minor modifications done for me by our local 4x4 specialist he's long established well respected and sensible and this seems best way forward. Your advice has been excellent I now have a plan assuming you don't advise against this At all. Thank you for coming back with several replies, I have three related last simpler questions - would you agree on balance that it would be more sensible to do (get the guide checked) and save the money which would be better spent on getting regular checks made instead of thrown at it now? AND regarding the new kits you refer to are available for when the guide is replaced if it hasn't been which I am assuming can be done without the whole £800 quid job being done- again which I could get done later AND only thing you didn't clarify earlier above was these new guides they presumably were adapted by Mitsubishi when they realised they f'd up in the first place and can be got and put on without spending the £800?- please - ignore next sentence below it got pasted there accidentally after I cut and pasted it during a completely separate e mail to a mate in between ours- the software won't let me delete it!

I think I know the answer so that's probably it

Expert:  Robert replied 2 years ago.

Hi..there..

Yep it would worth having checked anyway..id imagine that could only be done once you buy the vehicle to be honest as i doubt any dealer would like anyone pulling the cover off there and then if you see where im coming from..on the risk you dont buy it...ive included a link below to ebay where you can aquire the guide from aswell as the mitsubishi dealer itself..so you can yourself see the guide and what it looks like..only requires the cam cover to be removed and can be easily checked properly or replaced at a fration of the cost.and hours work would easily get it changed as oppossed to the full t-chain kit which would include that toobut the guide can be replaced on its own "if" suspect....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-MITSUBISHI-07-15-SHOGUN-3-2-DI-D-MODIFIED-TOP-ENGINE-TIMING-CHAIN-GUIDE/261533630995?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25402%26meid%3D866b47056f3d4127a83a3b3f627fa7e2%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D10670%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D380728902180

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Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thank you ever so much you've been a great help don't feel you have to reply if I'm correct but sounds like in theory the chain should last the lifetime of the engine then rather than cam belts which generally don't thanks again please do reply to this if I've got it right or wrong as a yes or no would do! Seriously though you've been great thanks again will score you highest very pleased with your advice thanks

Expert:  Robert replied 2 years ago.

Hi..there..no problem at all..and many thanks for rating..much appreciated

Normally they should in a sense or should last the lifetime of the car/engine..but nothing lasts for ever or made to last sadly and will at some point require replacement anyway but not as often as timing belts do..

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