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Dr. Barbara
Dr. Barbara, Dog Veterinarian
Category: Dog
Satisfied Customers: 1614
Experience:  Over 30 years experience in veterinary medicine and surgery.
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Feeling stupid here! Thought we could put 2 beautiful chocolate

Customer Question

Feeling stupid here! Thought we could put 2 beautiful chocolate labs together and mating would be automatic. Both 5 yrs old. Bitch already had one litter 2 yrs ago and at right time in cycle, we think. Straw coloured discharge, presenting etc. Male a virgin. Licking etc but then more interested in licking her ears and playing. Met for 1st time 2 days ago on her ground... now realise how wrong this was. He ended up marking territory and playing. Today 4 hrs at his house and left alone. Again lots of licking and presenting. Bitch eventually fed up and back to playtime. Any ideas on how to save the day. Recon we have about 2-3 days left. Seem it only happens when you don't want it! Now realise our idiot-rating having done some research but helpful suggestions would be greatly considered.
If we give up for 6 months and try again, how do we make sure it works next time?
They are a great match if we can make it work!
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Dog
Expert:  Dr. Barbara replied 2 years ago.

Dr. Barbara :

Hi, Welcome to JustAnswer. I'm a licensed veterinarian and I'll be happy to help. You are not being idiotic! I'm all for putting the dogs together and letting things happen naturally if at all possible.

Dr. Barbara :

There are tests that your vet can do to see if your bitch is actually in estrus or in the fertile time. This usually occurs 9-14 days after her first vaginal discharge. The tests your vet could do would be a vaginal smear that is stained and evaluated microscopically, or a serum progesterone test.

Dr. Barbara :

You are very correct that this mating should occur at Max's home just to avoid all of the marking and playing that you did experience with him at the bitch's home.

Dr. Barbara :

Do you know how many days ago the bitch first had a vaginal discharge?

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Red discharge 12th May. Changed to sandy 19th Mon. Happy with bitch (Farrah) performance. Dog (Max) doesn't seem to realise its now ok to go for it! Been re assuring and leaving alone etc.

Dr. Barbara :

So we are only on the 11th day of her heat cycle. . .she may not actually be ready. The best way to know would be to have the vet test her. Otherwise, I would leave Max and Farrah together for several more days. Her actual estrus should also signal the right time to him.

Dr. Barbara :

Farrah is standing still for him and presenting her rear to him?

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Yes. She is actually getting fed up presenting and cried all day yesterday when she didn't see him. He is licking her but then moves past and goes to lick and play with her ears. She lives about 800 yds away and went home again at 5pm as we all decided to give up. I can probably lift her again tomorrow and leave them together for most of the day, or be there, but we didn't think there was any point!

Dr. Barbara :

I would highly recommend you do that, and you can also gently show Max what to do. . .hold him in position, and, if you don't mind, actually stroke his sheath and penis.

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Local vets now closed for holidays and can't really call this an emergency before Tues when we think will be too late.

Dr. Barbara :

So in the UK you celebrate Memorial Day also? Didn't know!

Dr. Barbara :

Tuesday may be too late, I agree.

Dr. Barbara :

Some vets may have office hours on Sat. morning.

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

No. UK ( I'm Northern Ireland) but same idea... just end of May Bank holiday

Dr. Barbara :

Oh!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

We are more worried that he doesn't really know what to do.

Dr. Barbara :

Really, tho', determining that Farrah is actually in heat still leaves the deed up to Max and you, possibly. Your vet could also perform artificial insemination.

Dr. Barbara :

And it is very possible that Max doesn't know what to do and will need your guidance (as I discussed above).

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Are you saying that tomorrow he might actually realise that he shouldn't stick it in her ear and suddenly realise what to do. Not trying to be rude here. just asking is it possible that he might suddenly get an urge?

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Sorry.. old man... 57... slow at typing lived in Florida for few years in 80s love you lot... didn't even realise you were in states.. though uk oops

Dr. Barbara :

Yes! If she comes into actual heat, this may be all the urge he needs. Just having more experience with her may be all that's needed. Or having your guidance may really help.

Dr. Barbara :

57 isn't old at all (I'm 67) and I feel you are typing just fine. . .and faster than I!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

My problem is that for the last 2 weeks I have been tell all our friends that he is going to get "lucky" this week and now he has been classified as "gay". This is a joke. Scared to offend by accident at my age. Don't want to put either party to any more preceived possible heartache unless you thing that the is a genuine possibility in this changing from more playtime to something more fruitful as when her owners come to get her their faces drop when I shake my head again.

Dr. Barbara :

Also, remember, that insemination doesn't have to be right at the time of ovulation. . .insemination can occur a day or two before ovulation, or a day later. . .both the egg and the sperm hang around for hours to a day +.

Dr. Barbara :

Understand! Here are the facts that you can present to Farrah's owners. Actual estrus occurs in general between day 9 and day 14 after the first vaginal discharge occurs. This is very flexible as there are no hard and fast rules. . .sort of like women with their cycles. . .normal is widely varied. Farrah's owners could have her vaginal lining tested by a vet there to see where she actually is in her cycle, and Max may actually need a little physical guidance due to his inexperience.

Dr. Barbara :

Also, no offense taken. I have never heard of a gay dog, personally or in the literature, but some males really are less inclined. Perhaps they are gay???????

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

OK. 9pm here. I will contact owners in morning to try and arrange another visit.

Dr. Barbara :

If you want to just have them together at your home, I'd continue to do this daily until 21 days after Farrah's first vaginal discharge, or June 2.

Dr. Barbara :

Good luck!!!!!! The puppies will be adorable!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Question ref this site. Can I print this to show them our discussion or have I access to this chat tomorrow to let them read it. Can this be done because they are going to think I am nuts. It is Budweiser time now after all! and a Friday night! Also, do you want updates? Are you West Coast or East Coast? Time suggests West.

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

I am happy to bring their dog here every day for the next week but I thought there was no point after tuesday.

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

I need to show them some reason to not give up as all parties want this.

Dr. Barbara :

I'd love to have updates! I am in California, so you are 8 hours ahead of me. I know that you have access to this conversation for at least 5 days after you rate, so they could read this on here. There is not a print option on my screen, and don't think there is on yours. . .but I will ask our administration about this. Enjoy your Bud!

Dr. Barbara :

There is always testing of Farrah to see when she is in heat and then artificial insemination by your vet, but the best (I feel) is to do exactly as you all are doing. . .just don't give up too early! If things don't work out this heat cycle, then in 6 months you all can go the more scientific route!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Sounds good. But explain again. Sorry. Why we should be still keep trying until June 2nd and not give up on Tuesday. Last question. Promise. (Sunset in 20 mins... what there is of it!)

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Thank you for you help. Happy to authorise whatever payment necessary but would like to maintain follow up suggestions with you if possible on this issue. You will probably get a question at 4am PCT? lol.

Dr. Barbara :

No apologies needed. . .that's why I'm here! There are no hard and fast rules regarding heat cycles. . .the norm can be widely varied. Assuming a female is healthy, actual estrus generally occurs 9-14 days after the first vaginal discharge, but can occur as early as 4 days and as long as 21 days after that first vaginal discharge.

Dr. Barbara :

I'm very happy to help! You have brought a smile to my face (and to my husband's face)! All follow up contact is very welcomed! Hoping to be asleep at 4 AM, but will be back online a little later in the morning!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

And this means. Sorry. Stupid Paddy here! Even though it all started 10 days ago!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Bottom line. He might have another 10 days to get lucky!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Maybe a Guiness supplement?

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

What's your hubby doing here?

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Sorry, abstract comment! Not relevant. My wife is out tonight at a wedding and probably drinking for both of us. Now! That is scary! Believe me!

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Good Night or Good Morning. Will be in touch! Stephen.

Dr. Barbara :

I'm working at home right now and he's retired. We've gotten very into the series "Ballykissangel" (think that's spelled correctly?), do you guys watch that? I go swimming at 2 most days, so I'm off until later.

Dr. Barbara :

Best of luck to you Stephen. Will be back here in a couple of hours. Dr. Barbara

JACUSTOMER-7g8ci51m- :

Great show. Pretty close to a lot of actual people I knew. We all enjoyed it here, but it was a while ago!

Dr. Barbara :

Yeah, we have the DVD set. Really like it!

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