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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Employment Law
Satisfied Customers: 48804
Experience:  Qualified Employment Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
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Hi at the company I work for a group of people went into consultation

Customer Question

Hi at the company I work for a group of people went into consultation on 24 June which ended on 2 Oct with circa 15 people moving to another team for unclear reasons - as this didn't result in redundancies this is not being classed as consultation - why is this? In Dec the team that the 15 people moved across to is entering another consultation! Despite the old team continuing to recruit for more staff!
Is this following due process or is this the possibility of collusion? Thanks
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Employment Law
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.

Ben Jones :

Hello, my name is Ben and it is my pleasure to assist you with your question today. What is the new consultation for?

PS: I am mobile today so do not always have a signal and may not be able to respond straight away but you will receive a full answer this afternoon, thanks

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

At the co I work for we went into consultation 24 June ended Oct with no redundancies so this isn't now classed as a consultation- why is this?

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

15 people were moved to another team for unclear reasons & now they have entered another consultation despite the original team continuing to recruit

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

Does this follow due process or is there a possibility of collusion?

Ben Jones :

ok but what is the new consultation for?

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

The same as the original consultation structure change and poss redundancies

Ben Jones :

Do you know how many people are potentially going to be made redundant?

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

It seems a little odd having 2 for the same reason

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

No - advice is people will be mapped to newly created roles where possible

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

Eat 10-25 potential redundancies

Ben Jones :

So presumably there will be more people affected with this latest round of potential redundancies because it nowencompasses two teams?

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

No it doesn't impact the original team but the new holding team merged from other teams in the last consultation

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

There's circa 80 people in the holding team created in the last consultation

Ben Jones :

it is possible to have separate periods of consultation for each round of proposed redundancies. So for example, the initial proposal was to either make people redundant or move them to another team, the employer held a consultation over this and in the end the employees were moved to another team. That would have then brought to an end the current proposals at the time. The situation may then have changed and the employer required to further reorganise its business and place more employees at risk, triggering a new period of consultation, which is what they appear to be doing now. The original consultation only affected the people which were eventually moved to the new team, this new consultation will affect all people in this new team - no consultation was previously undertaken with this new team for the proposed changes to it

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

What's the terminology for a consultation which is not viewed historically as a consultation?

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

The initial proposal is the same as the current one

Ben Jones :

I am not sure what you are looking for specifically, there is no such terminology, it is simply a consultation which was performed for a specific event, this has been completed so a new consultation has begun for a new event

Ben Jones :

ok but it involves more people that the first time

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

But he are stating that technically the original consultation was not a consultation as there were no redundancies required

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

He

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

Human resources!

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

The new consultation involves less people than the orig as its the holding team at risk

Ben Jones :

well the law only requires a consultation if there are going to be 20 or more proposed redundancies so if there were never that many people at risk a collective consultation would not have been required. There would have still been a requirement for some consultation but that would have covered the initial move, which occurred. Now there are other people involved and a new consultation will be required to cover these people as well, even if the proposed outcome is the same as the original one

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

Thanks but the new consultation only involves a subset of the people in the original

Ben Jones :

but it is still a new group technically

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

Ah ha thanks

Ben Jones :

the circumstances are still different than the first consultation - the end result may be the same but the group is now different, it is not the original group

Ben Jones :

so as the circumstances have changed then the employer can begin a new consultaiton process

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

Even though it's for the same reasons as the original

Ben Jones :

yes but as mentioned this is now a different group of people, even if they are facing the same end result, this is still a different situation than the original one

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

So even though the group is a subset of the original s it's still technically a new group

Ben Jones :

yes it is

JACUSTOMER-zzy3c8nx- :

Does the same apply to the consultation reasons as they're identical to the original

Ben Jones :

Hi sorry I lost my signal earlier. What is the significance of this to you - how does the lack or presence of the initial consultation period affect you?