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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Employment Law
Satisfied Customers: 47383
Experience:  Qualified Employment Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
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I am working as security operative fro large private company.On

Customer Question

I am working as security operative fro large private company.On my interview for job 3 months ago I have been told different things which now they try to implement. On the interview H&R manager was impressed with my CV and myself after interview and he offer me straight away position.I ask him to confirm that position is 100% secured and he said yes,so I gave notice for my that time current company and I was waiting for official letter and contract. When I got the letter salary was correct,but I found very,very strange that holiday is 14 days + 8 bank holidays and break is unpaid and is only 30 minutes.I was in the shock.I called him nd send email to explain this and explanation which he gave me didn't make sense for me but because I already gave notice on previous job I was like in trap so I said OK. When I start first day I question him again about holiday and he found my question offended ,I dot know why,like seems I am stupid asking again,he gave some nonsense answer and explanation ,so I didn't want to argue with him.I have been working as security operative for 22 years,I know inside out my job and I worked on this shift pattern for years,they neved had security in place before maybe this is the reason but his arrogance is something unbelievable.We got our manager which is company health and safety manager and he is brilliant person,I am working for 2,5 months and I got two appraisal with him after one month and two months and he is impressed with my performance.They tried already to change our shift pattern and force us to do days and night and I said that I sign contract for night time security operative on 4 on 4 off shift pattern and due to family reasons and other things I cant shange shift pattern and work some strange days and nights mix up shifts so at the moment I don't have any response back sill is open.I ask my manager how is it possible that as security operative on large one man site I have 30 minutes only break and plus unpaid break? He said he got hour unpaid,but I reply that I am security so technically did this mean that if I decide to go 2am in a middle of the night on my break I can leave site and leave unattended and go to XXXXX or anywhere else on my unpaid break? He said no you cant leave site you are security and alone,and I said yes but you cant force me to stay as I have unpaid break,so I can do whatever I wont in this 30 minutes,he said - true,that was today.He said he will check with H&R manager - I am sure one who pull al this.Second my manager told me yesterday that owner may decide to cut overtime rates from 1.5 to normal rates,and I was in shock again and I said I sign contract and one of many reasons why I took this job is because overtime is paid by time and a half, so today I got email that overtime is available in June as one off security operative want to take 4 days off so to let them know if any of us two want to take overtime on FLAT rates and if don't want they will arrange cover internally - meaning drivers will do security work- unbelievable. I know because I am working on 4 on 4 off shift pattern 12 hours shift but paid only 11,5 I have 40.25 hours per week or even 3,5 days a week I am working average so my holiday in any calculation must be 20 working days. With given from contract 14 days plus 8 bank holidays - they paid us single rate if we are not working on bank holiday and if are roster and on work they pay us single again and give day in a lue but only if we working full 12h on day when is bank holiday,if we do work 6 hours because we doing nights from 6pm to 6am they dont pay nothing extra or give any day or calculate towards this.So on this shift patern one year teams working 6 days and other 2 and next year is opposite,always like that. So they calculate my workmate off shift day when he is not working and not roster on rota for work like holiday???But he is already off for 4 days,on his days off,so how this can be holiday day taken??I am so sorry to write a lot here ,but all tree of us have a family and chiclden and some how for us is to have a job so important but seems that H&R manager want to ruin everything and I don't see why,everything from interview up to now he want to change and I don't this this is legal what he try to do, but I think he know that our families depend on us and we will be quiet and take everything just to keep job.Not to mention that he said you will have £9.50 on interview and when I got letter was 9.25 and I asked why this and how? He said you guys will have 30 minutes unpaid break,I was in the shock never hear,saw that in security industry in any company for this 22years security operative can have unpaid break and no cover specially on big one man working alone site like this one.I need to know what to do,shall I not take overtime on flat rates,but I need money,shall I keep quiet and suit them in a future?Or what is best to do?Seems they think and they do slowly whatever they want,but I need a job ;-ç
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Employment Law
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.

Ben Jones : Hello, my name is XXXXX XXXXX it is my pleasure to assist you with your question today. Are you an employee or self employed?
Customer: hi thanks, XXXXX XXXXX in full time employment
Customer:

Hi,you are not online

Ben Jones :

Hi sorry I was just going offline when I picked up your question as I did not expect you to be up at that time. Your rights are as follows:


 



  1. Holidays – full time workers that work 5 days a week are entitled to a minimum of 28 days holiday a year, which can also include all bank holidays. If you work less than 5 days a week then your holidays will also be less (for example someone working 4 days would get 22 days)

  2. Breaks – you are only entitled to a 20-minute break for every full 6 hours of work. So if you work anything less than 12 hours a day you are still only entitled to 20 minutes. These breaks can be unpaid, but you are allowed to take them away from your normal working place so you can leave the premises if you wanted to on your breaks, but you won’t get paid for them – there is nothing in law that says you must be paid for breaks.

  3. Overtime – changing your overtime rates if you already have them in your contract is a breach of contract. However the issue is that if you disagree with it and do not accept it they can dismiss you very easily because you are not protected against unfair dismissal until you have at least 2 years’ continuous service with them. So that is the risk of fighting with them over this issue.

Customer: Hello Ben,thanks for answering,first 2 answers I already knew as they apply general but I explain my specific situation.I would like you to please clarify about overtime so even if they breach anything from contract which is signed like overtime pay rates they reduce I am not protected if I work for company less than 2 years?So they can change sallary,overtime rates and anything else?on which ground they can do this?Thanks
Ben Jones :

ok leave with me I need to go out for a few hours and will get back later this evening thank you

Customer: No rush any time Ben, thanks very much, if you can please look into this for me I dont have no one else to ask and no money to go and pay private for advice.Big thanks!!!!
Ben Jones :

ok

Customer: Thanks,I am waiting for ur response
Ben Jones :

Sorry for the delay, was working on a tribunal yesterday that took up to the early hours of today...if you are contractually entitled to pay or overtime rates then the employer must apply these and if they change them or try to reduce them then it would amount to breach of contract. This means that if you refuse to accept them you can claim for the difference in pay that has resulted in this. However, if the employer is not happy with your response and does not like the fact that you have refused to accept the changes, they can go ahead and dismiss you legally because you do not have the 2 years service. They could then just end your employment and that would be it, or they could offer you a new contract with the reduced rates and you can either accept it and start working on the new rates or refuse it and your dismissal will stand


Ben Jones :

Has this clarified your position?

Ben Jones :

Please let me know if this has answered your original question or if you need me to clarify anything else for you in relation to this? Thanks

Customer:

Hello Ben, first of all thanks very much and I will leave for you top class feedback. I only have one single question and is your good will to help me out and this is regarding holiday and general question please? First of all I was working in the past for many security companies and blue chip organisations so I had always 20 days holiday plus bank holiday when I am on shift working I getting pay double when I am off and bank holiday fall on that day I am not getting paid ,so was perfect and correct. In this strange new company I am working same shift pattern 4 days on 4 days off night shifts 12h shifts,so I have 225h per month working hours which is equivalent to 19,56 days holiday same as on any previous job.Problem is this employer state in my contract that I have 14 holidays days and 8 bank holidays,which they workout like this and this is very wrong: if is bank holiday and I am working I get paid single rates and get day in lieu so this day in lieu they calculate inside this 22 total days given and I have to take within 2 months,can you image this? I know that before I had 20 days holiday without any restriction so I can take in one go if I want and never was a problem and rest bank holiday as I explained before.And if I am off and ban holiday fall on my day off they paid single rates but I already losing one day as they that day calculate in this given 14 plus 8 days?? Can you believe this?We working more than normal person per month in terms of hours,we don't work five days a week but we are working 12 hours shift so we have again on the end of the month more hours than office people around 10 to 20 hours,so how comes that office people by law got 22 days plus bank holidays and we have 14 days plus bank holiday which they take from our holiday entitlement and force us if we do work on bank holiday that take that day in lie which they give take within 2 months even that that day is not given but is in those 8 bank holiday originally?

Customer:

Ben many thanks I will leave brilliant feedback for you just please please as good will clarify this for me:

Customer:

sorry I thought that I deleted my question by mistake so I press enter button,so employer can do anything what they want to do ,cut original hours ,cut salary ,cut overtime anything and if I am not working for more than 2 years I can only take it or leave it ,I don't have any rights?They can demand more and more duties even if they are not in contract and anything else? -This was general question , Please only answer about holiday and this above and once again you are the star really I mean this and your help was amazing ,I wish I can afford to pay for your service and you to represent me in a future if I decide to go against one day ...... I wish you all the best and I am waiting for your answers. MANY MANY THANKS

Ben Jones :

Hi, I would be very happy to answer your question but as it is a separate and new query you would need to post it as a new question. But you can ask for me personally at the beginning if you start it with 'for Ben Jones' and I will deal with it as soon as I can, thank you

Ben Jones and other Employment Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Please let me know if this has answered your original question or if you need me to clarify anything else for you in relation to this? Thanks
Customer:
Hello Ben, first of all thanks very much and I will leave for you top class feedback. I only have one single question and is your good will to help me out and this is regarding holiday and general question please? First of all I was working in the past for many security companies and blue chip organisations so I had always 20 days holiday plus bank holiday when I am on shift working I getting pay double when I am off and bank holiday fall on that day I am not getting paid ,so was perfect and correct. In this strange new company I am working same shift pattern 4 days on 4 days off night shifts 12h shifts,so I have 225h per month working hours which is equivalent to 19,56 days holiday same as on any previous job.Problem is this employer state in my contract that I have 14 holidays days and 8 bank holidays,which they workout like this and this is very wrong: if is bank holiday and I am working I get paid single rates and get day in lieu so this day in lieu they calculate inside this 22 total days given and I have to take within 2 months,can you image this? I know that before I had 20 days holiday without any restriction so I can take in one go if I want and never was a problem and rest bank holiday as I explained before.And if I am off and ban holiday fall on my day off they paid single rates but I already losing one day as they that day calculate in this given 14 plus 8 days?? Can you believe this?We working more than normal person per month in terms of hours,we don't work five days a week but we are working 12 hours shift so we have again on the end of the month more hours than office people around 10 to 20 hours,so how comes that office people by law got 22 days plus bank holidays and we have 14 days plus bank holiday which they take from our holiday entitlement and force us if we do work on bank holiday that take that day in lie which they give take within 2 months even that that day is not given but is in those 8 bank holiday originally?
Customer:
Ben many thanks I will leave brilliant feedback for you just please please as good will clarify this for me:
Customer:
sorry I thought that I deleted my question by mistake so I press enter button,so employer can do anything what they want to do ,cut original hours ,cut salary ,cut overtime anything and if I am not working for more than 2 years I can only take it or leave it ,I don't have any rights?They can demand more and more duties even if they are not in contract and anything else? -This was general question , Please only answer about holiday and this above and once again you are the star really I mean this and your help was amazing ,I wish I can afford to pay for your service and you to represent me in a future if I decide to go against one day ...... I wish you all the best and I am waiting for your answers. MANY MANY THANKS
Ben Jones :
Hi, I would be very happy to answer your question but as it is a separate and new query you would need to post it as a new question. But you can ask for me personally at the beginning if you start it with 'for Ben Jones' and I will deal with it as soon as I can, thank you
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
Hi, question answered here:

http://www.justanswer.co.uk/employment-law/8fje3-just-pay-tip-ben-answer-last-question.html

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