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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Employment Law
Satisfied Customers: 48787
Experience:  Qualified Employment Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
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There, I need some urgent advise redundancy that

Customer Question

Hi there,
I need some urgent advise for the redundancy that is taking place in my company.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Employment Law
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
(Posted by JustAnswer at customer's request) Hello. I would like to request the following Expert Service(s) from you: Live Phone Call. Let me know if you need more information, or send me the service offer(s) so we can proceed.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi there,
I need some urgent advise with regards ***** ***** redundancy warning that I have received on Friday and requested a meeting for Monday, Can you please give me a call back on *********** to discuss this in detail
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Hello can you please provide more details of your situation?
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Hello can you please provide more details of your situation?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Any chance if you call me on ***********
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi let me put together here in message.I was hired in the company to work as a systems engineer in June 2011 and in July my job title changed to Technical Account Manager which in reality sits under the same team giving additional responsibilities.Company has recently couldn't made their numbers and have started however o was never intimated that my job could be at risk but on Friday 1st April I have been given a letter stating that my job is at risk because the job title that I have is no longer required by the company and has been absorbed by a different team.I have given very short time to arrange everything and have called first meeting on Monday 4th at 3pm and letter even states that my last day of employment is 15th of April should company decide to make me redundant.Just to let you know that even though my title was changed I was doing both the jobs including technical account management and systems engineering the whole time, mostly systems engineering.I would also like to point out that I was given award last year this time as most impactful team of the year.I want to understand how should I proceed for the meeting tomorrow at 3pm
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Do you want me to respond here or discuss it on the phone?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
You can respond here and if you need further clarification you can ask.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I am not sure if i should be paying more for a phone call as I have already paid for the initial advise though.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
By the way can I add file here with letter that I have received and it is kept private?
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Anything on here is public so if you need to keep it private then it is best not to post it
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
As to fees, you have paid for initial advice on here yes, phone calls ar a premium service though so if you require that it would be additonal
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
So are there others who are doing the same job and are in the same position as you?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There is only myself in UK with the title of TAM, however there is one more in Middle East. As mentioned, even though the title was given without signing any new contract but i was still doing the same job as all the other Systems Engineer in the team.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Any chance I email you the letter?
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
I am afraid we can only communicate on here. So would you see yourself still very much as a SE but just with a small additional role on the sidemto make up the role you do now?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
That is correct, i still see myself mostly SE duties.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
The term 'redundancy' is used to describe a situation in which an employer decides to reduce the number of its employees. There are various reasons as to why redundancies may be required, such as economic pressure, changes in the nature of products/services offered, internal reorganisation, workplace relocation, etc. The reason for the proposed redundancies will rarely be challenged and the employer will simply have to justify that the actual reason satisfied the statutory definition of a redundancy, which can be found in The Employment Rights Act 1996:
1. Business closure – where the whole of the employer’s business is closed
2. Workplace closure – closure or relocation of one or more sites
3. Reduced requirement for employees to carry out work of a particular kind (this is where many employees get confused as they believe a job has to actually disappear for them to be made redundant).The third reason above creates the most challenges. Examples of when there is a reduced requirement to do work of a particular kind are:
• The same amount of work remains but fewer employees are needed to do it. This includes consolidating some of its jobs (e.g. spreading out certain jobs amongst existing employees).
• There is less work of a particular kind and fewer employees are needed to do it (both the work and the headcount shrink)
• There is less work of a particular kind, but the same number of employees are required overall.So as long as the employer can show that their situation fell within one of the accepted reasons for declaring a redundancy, the test will be satisfied and the focus then shifts on the remainder of the redundancy procedure. This would include what consultation took place, whether any suitable alternative employment was offered to those at risk and the general fairness of the redundancy procedure applied by the employer.Your title and role changed last year so assuming you did not challenge that and continued working under the new terms it would be your contractual role now. So the issue is whether this role can be seen to be unique, or if in reality it is too similar and closely connected to the SE roles which means that your colleagues in those roles should be treated the same and all be at risk of redundancy.This is your basic legal position. I have more detailed advice for you in terms of the law when a potentially redundant position is similar to others not affected, which I wish to discuss so please take a second to leave a positive rating for the service so far (by selecting 3, 4 or 5 stars) and I can continue with that and answer any further questions you may have. Don’t worry, there I no extra cost and leaving a rating will not close the question and we can continue this discussion. Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How do you think I should proceed for the Meeting tomorrow at 3pm, taking into account that they have given very short notice, Should I defer a meeting to next 48 hours while I get some clarity and have some work colleague (not trade union rep) to attend with me.What should be the content of email that I should I sent to HR?
Secondly, If do go for the first consultation meeting, what should be my actions and statements?
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Why do you need more notice, how would you use that if you had more time? Please remember to leave your rating so I can continue assisting fuether, thank you
Ben Jones and other Employment Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
>Why do you need more notice, how would you use that if you had more time?
Having more time can assist me getting some more clarity on the law to take the right next step and can also help me finding my next job, if you see what I mean.Coming back to answer your question.
>So the issue is whether this role can be seen to be unique, or if in reality it is too similar and closely connected to the SE roles
Although the role of TAM is unique but I have rarely done the duties of role (I would say 10% of the time) in reality ever since I had given the title (July, 2013)
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
There is no minimum notice period in law for a consultation meeting. This is not like a disciplinary wher you have to prepare a defence, etc. A consultation meeting is basically a two-way process wher you and the employer discuss the reasons for the proposed redundancy, why it has arisen, any options on trying to avoid it and possibilities of remaining in employment by being placed into a suitable alternative position.So you can ask them why you are the one at risk when your job is more or les the same as the SEs and that they should be treated the same as you, regardless of whether you have a different job title. The employer should look at the duties, rather than just the title.Legally, when a redundancy situation arises, there is a legal obligation on an employer to ensure that it applies a fair method of selection when deciding on who is to be made redundant. The general requirement is that a fair and objective method should be applied.The first step is identifying the pool of employees from which the selection will be made. Often that could be a particular job, a department, even a whole office. The employer only has to show that its choice of pool was within the range of reasonable responses. This could often be linked to the needs of the business, for example a need to reduce a particular expense linked to a team, outsourcing certain work, etc.The general rules state that when deciding on the choice of pool, the employer should start by considering two questions, which will help them identify which employees should be included:
• Which particular kind of work is disappearing?
• Which employees perform the particular kind of work which is disappearing?If the roles you do are very similar then picking you just because you have some small additional responsibilities could be unfair and this should form the main argument you raise with them.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Good, that sounds good.
Can you help me put together the set of questions that I should pose and what are the set of questions that I should be expecting from the Employer.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
It is rather difficult to give you specific questions to ask on your situation as I still have rather limited information on the whole set up, organisation, reasons for redundancy etc. This is really only possible by someone who has been involved in this fully, usually a trade union rep who has been helping you throughout the process. So I can only provide general info and the following resources really summarise this well, of course adjusting them to your specific situation: http://www.workingmums.co.uk/advice-and-support/top-tips-on-redundancy/ http://www.pcs-hpnw.org.uk/resources/Questions%20for%20redundancy%20consultation%20meetings%20and%20appeals%20v2.pdf http://michaelscutt.co.uk/2009/10/08/10-questions-to-ask-if-youre-made-redundant/
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I went through your links, they appear useful, however I would appreciate some clear guidelines as to how shall I proceed with my particular case, Please feel free to ask me the bullet point questions to understand the set up of organisation.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
I am afraid I cannot give such specific advice on here - this is not hos such situations work. We are a general Q&A site, if you need such specific advice you need t engage a solicitor in person to sit down with you and g through the full documentation with you and interview you to establish your situation fully, then devise some sort of plan - not really possible here and certainly not for the low fees charged.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Ben,Let me update you on the meeting.Key point here is the difference between TAM and SE is, SE is to execute the revenue related activity (directly linked to purchase order) and TAM is to execute more of value added activities (not necessarily linked to PO).My challenge here was that over the duration of period I had the TAM role (since July,2013), I have only done the TAM role at 3 occasions during the first five months (until Dec2013) after that up until now I was carrying out revenue related activities (I have email evidences that I was carrying out revenue related activities)Inspite of me mentioning above here are the answers I have got;"I acknowledged that you have at times carried out some of the tasks of a SE and that SEs at times may carry out some of the TAM/consultancy tasks, and that your role is 75% TAM focussed and 25% delivery focussed. Your role is not the same as the SE, which is in fact a role that you have not fully done for at least the last couple of years."In the above answer eventhough my role was supposed to be 75%TAM and 25% SE but reality is I have done 90% SE duties and 10% TAM duties, if this is the case should they not select from the pool SE to make person redundant?"We discussed at length whether in your role you carry out the same technical delivery as the rest of the SE team. I do not believe that this is the case as your deliveries are mainly focussed on content (i.e. KPIs, dashboards etc.) whereas the SEs are much more involved in the delivery of solution architectures/systems which include adapters, kernel, optional modules."Now here even though they have accepted that I was doing the technical delivery (means executing the revenue related work) but they have make the distinction of activities but the reality is All of the SE team execute these activities based on the individual's availability.My question is
Can they make the role redundant based on the unique title (TAM) even though in reality individual with unique title was sharing the same activities as of rest of the team (SE)?