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ukfamilysolicitor
ukfamilysolicitor, Family Solicitor
Category: Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 761
Experience:  Divorce, Finances, Children, Domestic Violence, Care Proceedings
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I tried to move my 8 year old daughter to a new school out

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I tried to move my 8 year old daughter to a new school out of area but to an area we will live in as it is a better school and we are selling the house I jointly own with my ex boyfriend, her father. Therefore we have to move out of area anyway as it is too expensive to live here. I am primary carer he has contact 2 nights a week. He stopped the transition to the school stating parental responsibility. After mediation breakdown (he pulled out) I am going for a specific issue order for schooling. We have had hearing number 1 and urged to find an agreement before 2nd hearing. His solicitor offered that if I first move into the area he will now agree. Should I take the offer? I wanted to move area after settling in school not before. I thought a specific issue order was just about school but he has tagged on a housing condition so can he do that? Many thanks for your help. I don't know how to respond to the offer but it is so stressful.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Family Law
Expert:  ukfamilysolicitor replied 1 year ago.
Hello
Welcome to Just Answer
I am a Solicitor and will assist you.
Please may I ask:
- how long are they saying that you need to live in the area before he will agree ?
- what will be the travel time between the new area and old school?
- has your daughter expressed a view?
- what was Cafcass' recommendations?
- what conditions is he stipulating about the new house?
- will the move affect his contact?
In respect of your property :
- were you ever married?
- are you joint tenants or tenants in common ?
Kind Regards
Caroline
Ps it will take me a short while to reply when I have your response as I am shortly setting off to travel to work
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

-how long are they saying that you need to live in the area before he will agree ? Not clear, I think they are saying as soon as I can prove I live in the area. They are not saying how I prove that

-what will be the travel time between the new area and old school? I will not be able to live in the new area and old school because the old school is 12 miles east of York, I work in Wetherby on the west of York and the new area and new school is closer to my new place of work on the north outer ring road. I would not be able to move then travel east only to go west to work. Also there is insufficient child minders in providing support in the old area but loads of choice in the new area.

-has your daughter expressed a view? At first scared to move at all – but accepts we have to move and got used to the idea of a new school and house so now is ready to move. At times she says she would rather no change at all. I introduced her to new childminders so she has made friends in the new school area and now wants to move schools

- what was Cafcass' recommendations? That generally speaking children should live in the area in which they go to school to facilitate friends. They did not specify in what order. My ex’s solicitor is the one saying we must move house first – I think he wants us out of the house so is tagging it on and building an argument that unless we move area first we are not allowed to change school. I believe our daughter 's needs are better suited to moving schools first and taking a few months to find a new rental property or if we decide to continue commuting I don't see his problem. We have lived here for 7 years so why should our daughter and I be pressurised to move house until I have found somewhere suitable. At the same time the school place may her lost if we don't move her during the Easter term. This does not give me time to make a housing move. Because the school place is blocked I am not moving anywhere as I could not transport her back here in this remote area. Lack of child care originally forced me to look at moving schools. Looking at the new school made me realise it is much better than the one she currently goes to. We still have child care problems in the area of the old school and have had to get temporary live in child care.

- what conditions is he stipulating about the new house? Just that it must be in the new area (he has not stated distance to school though) They are also threatening to make application that I pay half the bundle for court prep and they may ask me for solicitors cost for his defence even though I have gone to court unrepresented as I have no money for legal representation.

- will the move affect his contact? No the move is the same distance to his work and where he lives

- I may consider an offer of an order that is generic to other areas and schools because I can't rush into renting so I may lose the school placement because of this housing condition he has put on the offer of out of court agreement. I still don't see have an order specific to schooling can be manipulated so that a housing condition can be placed on us. He does not think we can first afford to move so he actually wants us to lose the school place. This may well happen. I would still go for a generic order which them means if we choose to live further away by perhaps another 10 miles that shouldn't affect our contact arrangements either. That may work for us. This raises another question around - How far away can I move without him claiming contact will be affected? (sorry it is a pandora's box of questions) Also can he stop me moving or how far away? Originally I wanted to move away by 25 miles but I feared that would be an issue for him. One reason I selected a new area and school so close was in the hope for no problems. He will argue anything it seems and cannot recognise that he has a good deal in this!

In respect of your property :

- were you ever married? No thank goodness

- are you joint tenants or tenants in common ? Cant remember but we are 50 50 legally owners. He put more equity in by between 15 to 20,000 but he thinks he put more in. We had a loose agreement that he would get a greater share but not specified. I have lived on little money this last 5 years since we split, to bring our daughter up and no regrets. I have credit card debts of about 15,000. He has continued to earn overtime and will be in a nice position financially. I wanted to have a discussion about working out an agreement in advance of the house sale, but he wont even attend mediation or any discussion

I am also off to work and will log in again tonight. Thanks in advance

Expert:  ukfamilysolicitor replied 1 year ago.

Hello

Thank you for your response.

My apologies for my delay in responding to you.

It seems to me that the property is causing a lot of the root issues here.

In respect of the children act application - the court is going to want to be satisifed that you do intend to move. Is the commute going to be possible for a period of time? have you identified some likley properties? the school has been selected and a place secured?

In relation to the property - it really is worth checking if you are tenants in common or joint tenants - follow this link and obtain the Title Register for £3. Let me know when you have it so I can talk you through it.

https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

Was there a deed of trust in respect of his payment? or at any time? who has continued to pay the bill since you separated?

Are you getting any maitenance from the father?

PS - costs orders are very rare in children act proceedings. You would have had to have been acting so unreasnably in bringing the application for such an order to be made against you.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards

Caroline

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello and here are the questions answered:

In respect of the children act application - the court is going to want to be satisifed that you do intend to move. Is the commute going to be possible for a period of time? have you identified some likley properties? the school has been selected and a place secured?

The school place was secure and she should have gone 2nd November – he stopped that, the school first saved the place until 5th Jan and then they agreed start of Easter. Understandably they wont save and guarantee it again if we don’t get this sorted soon. The 2nd hearing is end of February.

I do intend to move but want the school move first as we are trapped here and I worry if she cant go to another school we need to stay here as I cant work and bring her back here to school. I intend to move a couple of months after the school move when she is settled in school so it is a staged transition. Not sure how I prove that.

Distance – From where we live now to the new school is 14 miles and from the new school to my place of work is 12 miles so the new school is in effect on the way to work. When I settle in the new area near the new school it will mean less child care for my daughter.

I had a look at a couple of properties but they will be gone by the time we reach agreement no doubt so I wiil have to start again and find a rental that accepts dogs if we have to move out of the house early. Is it worth printing the properties off to show I am searching? Or should I just try to get an agreement then with my ex before court?

I wanted to stay here for a short time and move in the summer. My job is a temporary contract so I need to get an extension or a new job before I can sign up to a lease. It is cheaper to commute from here until the house sells (I pay only 150 per month in mortgage) I would need to find 700 per month in rent which is another reason why I want to move a bit later.

In relation to the property - it really is worth checking if you are tenants in common or joint tenants - follow this link and obtain the Title Register for £3. Let me know when you have it so I can talk you through it.

https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

I have the title now and it states the registered owners as my e and me so I think that is proof that we are joint tenants? It has on it Title absolute

Was there a deed of trust in respect of his payment? or at any time? who has continued to pay the bill since you separated?

We agreed to pay half the mortgage each plus he pays 210 per month maintenance for our daughter

Are you getting any maitenance from the father? Not for me

PS - costs orders are very rare in children act proceedings. You would have had to have been acting so unreasnably in bringing the application for such an order to be made against you.

Maybe they were talking about the “bundle” but I am not sure how much that costs and what his solicitor is charging for preparing as I didn’t have a solicitor

How are court orders worded? Could I ask for a generic one so if I lose this place I could use it in the future at another school and area?

Many thanks

Paula

Expert:  ukfamilysolicitor replied 1 year ago.
Hello Paula
Thank you for your responses. They are very helpful.
Just a couple more things:
- has the court ordered any directions in between now and the next hearing? statements, reports? is the next hearing listed as the final hearing?
- in relation to the property - on the register does it say any words like the following:
"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court".
Kind Regards
Caroline
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Just a couple more things: Hi Caroline here are responses:

- has the court ordered any directions in between now and the next hearing? statements, reports? is the next hearing listed as the final hearing?

Yes it is the final hearing

Court ordered both me and ex to go to a parenting short course to understand what our daughter may feel as a result of parents not agreeing

A statement – a narrative statement from both parities

- in relation to the property - on the register does it say any words like the following:

"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court".

Yes it says exactly that

Many thanks

Paula

Expert:  ukfamilysolicitor replied 1 year ago.
Hello Paula
Thank you for confirming that for me.
My apologies for my delay in responding.
In respect of the property - you are tenants in common. This means that when you purchased the property it was registered that you would hold the property in distinct shares. It is worth trying to locate the conveyancing paperwork as this should contain a deed of trust which details what share you both own in the property.
If your ex wont sell the property so that your interest can be realised - then you can make an application to your local county court on a Claim Form Part 8 - asking for an order for sale of the property.
In relation to the relocation - as previously stated the court will want to be satisfied that you do intend to move. Your ex does now appear to have agreed to the change of school but is wanting to agree on the basis that you move first. This doesn't seem unfair if you consider that he could be making sure that your intentions are genuine in moving.
If this is possible, then great - the matter would be resolved without a further hearing.
Although you tell me that this isn't agreed. You want to commute for a while in connection with your work and then relocate. You also needs to raise some funds.
If this is the position then you are going to have to explain your reasons to your ex's solicitors. See if they will agree a term such as you moving say within a number of months. It is of course logical that you would need to locate a property, this of course being on hold as you didnt know what your ex's position would be. If agreed this could be included in a consent order which if approved by the court means that a final hearing isn't necessary.
If he wont agree the you will have to proceed to the final hearing.
In respect of your statement you need to provide as much detail as possible. Details about the school, its inspection results, how the place is available and has been placed on hold several times.
You do need to provide details in respect of potential properties and detailing how and when it is you to plan to move in the transitional period that you are considering.
You should also detail the effect on contact and how this would be managed. If your ex was going to use the effect on contact as a reason why it is that should be able to move and move schools - then he would have raised this by now so in reality this isn't going to be an issue but it looks good for the court if you are thinking everything through.
In reality the court will likely approve the new school but dont take this as a given - make sure you are clear in your statement why this is in the best interest of your daughter; less child care etc etc Make sure you are clear as to the plan. It needs to be certain.
In respect of any costs being sought - ask for clarification on this. You should argue that you should each bear your own costs as this is the norm in children act cases.
Let me know if I have missed anything else you wanted to know or if I can clarify anything for you.
Kind Regards
Caroline
Caroline
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you Caroline

I feel better about the situation with your advise. Just one final thing. If I can't locate the conveyancing documents where will I get a copy? Do I approach the solicitors we previously used ?

Kind regards

Paula

Expert:  ukfamilysolicitor replied 1 year ago.

Dear *****a

My apologies for my delay in responding to you.

The best place for getting a copy of the conveyancing documents is your previous solicitors / conveyancers - if you cant find yours.

Please do not heistate to ask if I can assist you with anything further.

Kind Regards

Caroline

If you have found this service useful - please kindly remember to rate positively so that we receive credit for our work

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks Caroline now wish me luck I need to try to find a way to move forward

kind regards

Paula

Expert:  ukfamilysolicitor replied 1 year ago.
Im sure all will work out fine ;)
Kind Regards
Caroline
Expert:  ukfamilysolicitor replied 1 year ago.
Please Kindly remember to rate positively so that we receive credit for our work. Your question does not close when you leave positive feedback and I can answer your follow up questions for free.
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Experience: Divorce, Finances, Children, Domestic Violence, Care Proceedings
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