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Clare
Clare, Family Solicitor
Category: Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 33813
Experience:  I have been a solicitor in High Street Practise since 1985 and have specialised in Family Law for the last 10 years
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I am a UK resident. I live and work in the UK. My civil law

Resolved Question:

I am a UK resident. I live and work in the UK. My civil law partner took my two kids away from our family home in the uk to Munich, Germany. without my permission and consent. My kids are aged 4 and 2 respectively. Can you tell me what are rights are and what my obligations are in terms of child maintenance payments. My ex-partner I believe is currently unemployed in Germany at the moment. I have a gross income of 60K; and currently living with another partner I have 2 other children with. Aged 10 and 7.
Submitted: 9 months ago.
Category: Family Law
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I currently reside with my partner and my two kids with her. They stay with me all year round. And I am responsible for the upkeep. Can you also tell me whether it is the UK courts that determine what I pay or the German courts. I am not sure I am the father of the children my ex-partner is claiming to be mine. So I would also like to have to have a test done to determine this. My ex-partner is German and her two kids have UK passports.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Me and me ex-partner were never married. Either in a church or at court
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Just to reiterate: I am a UK resident. I live and work in the UK. My ex-partner (unmarried) took our two kids away from our family home in the uk to Munich, Germany in Feb 2016; without my permission and consent. The kids are aged 4 and 2 respectively. Can you tell me what are rights are and what my obligations are in terms of child maintenance payments. My ex-partner I believe is currently unemployed in Germany at the moment. I have a gross income of 60K; and currently living with another partner with whom I have 2 other children with. Aged 10 and 7.
Expert:  Clare replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for your question

My name is ***** ***** I shall do my best to help you

It is up to your ex whether she applies to the German courts and then enforces their Order in the UK or she goes directly to the Uk courts.

if she goes to the UK courts they will follow the CMS guidelines and you will be Ordered to pay 16% of 86% of your gross income - so £688 a month at most.

In either country you will be able to request a DNA test

Please ask if you need further details

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I have a couple of questions
1) What if she applies to the German courts, would my Child Maintenance payments be calculated using the German System (even though I do not reside in Germany)
2) Doesnt the CMS guidelines take into account, the fact that I am currently living with a partner and my two children with her. You mentioned that I am liable to pay 16% of 86% of my gross income.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
3) If she does apply through the German Courts, and If the support maintenance payments are based on the German system, what scope do I have in contesting this; assuming it is not inline with the UK CMS guidelines.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Hey clare, can you provide answers to the three questions I have.
PS: I already knew the information you provided me with.
What I do not know is this:
1) What if she applies to the German courts, would my Child Maintenance payments be calculated using the German System even though I do not reside in Germany2) Doesnt the CMS guidelines take into account, the fact that I am currently living with a partner and my two children with her. You mentioned that I am liable to pay 16% of 86% of my gross income. (NO NEED TO ANSWER, AS IT CLEARLY SAYS SO ON
THE CMS WEBSITE)3) If she does apply through the German Courts, and If the support maintenance payments are based on the German system, what scope do I have in contesting this; assuming it is not inline with the UK CMS guidelines.
Thanks
Expert:  Clare replied 9 months ago.

My apologies for the delay

1. Yes you would be assessed under the German system

2. Correct - that is why it is 86% of your income not 100%

3. The fact that the two systems do not match is not a ground for contesting the calculation. The German system is based on set rates - you can find a link here

http://www.paradigmfamilylaw.co.uk/international-child-maintenance/

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
1. Yes you would be assessed under the German system
We are not married whilst we were both living in the UK, we were cohabiting, so I am guessing that if even though I may be liable for child maintenance, I may not be liable to spousal support to her.According to the German civil code, what is taken to mean marriage, is determined at the country in which it occurred in. In the UK, cohabiting couple have no Legal binding.3. The fact that the two systems do not match is not a ground for contesting the calculation. The German system is based on set rates - you can find a link here.
Thanks. I have been to the site already. Several times. lol. Aside: There are lots of grounds on getting a none "set rate". Restriction or refusal of maintenance for gross inequity, the fact that I am maintaining another family; financial hardships due to depth; the person entitled frivolously induced his own indigence, (i.e if my partner left our lovely four bedroom house on "provable" spurious basis); the person entitled frivolously disregarded serious property interests of the person obliged ( i.e with no regards ***** ***** children's welfare); the person entitled, before the parties lived apart, for a long period grossly violated his duty to contribute to the family maintenance(nop in my case, and have the bank accounts statements etc to prove it); that we were never married;This is all in seection 1570, 1579, 1580, 1581 of the German Civi Code which you can find here http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#p5228.Thanks for the link to the site.
It saves me that 3 seoonds of googling.There are no special proceedings for the recognition of foreign marriages. However, the question of the validity of a marriage can be a preliminary question for other decisions, for example, taxes, family registration and naming. As a rule, Germany acknowledges the validity of foreign marriages if the laws (rules) of the foreign country (home country or country of marriage) concerning marriage were complied with. This means that German law accepts only Religious marriages, Marriages that follow the law of the fiancés' home country or the country where the marriage took place etc etc. etc. etc.It is all in section 1570, 1579, 1581, 1580,
Expert:  Clare replied 9 months ago.

You were never married so spouse maintenance was never an issue - I gave that link to take you to the latest child maintenance tables - my saved link was to the old one

If your ex choses to apply in Germany you will pay under the Dusseldorf tables.

The fact that you would pay less if it was assessed in the Uk is not relevant - and none of the arguments that you mention relate to child maintenance

I have only dealt with Child Maintenance - since she chose to up and go to Germany she has no chance of a successful CHildren Act applictaion in the UK regarding her housing needs - you simply do not earn enough.

Clare, Family Solicitor
Category: Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 33813
Experience: I have been a solicitor in High Street Practise since 1985 and have specialised in Family Law for the last 10 years
Clare and other Family Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Thanks. The actual child maintenance due (based on the Dusseldorf tables) is actually less than I was paying her as my partner. Plus all the good things that came with us as a family. It is a crazy world! I will not have been so offended if she has not brought up this issue. I guess the fact that we were never married was never taken into account by her and her 'advisors'. I hope the issue resolves itself positively and she comes back with the kids, after some time.
Thanks for the advice. EU\German\UK child maintenance laws are a maze. A good lawyer would definitely help if it comes that. I wish I didn't have to go down that route. Proving support for the children has never been an issue. I was worried about spousal support for someone that wishes to live the real house wives of new York on someone else labors.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
You can close this now. I am happy with the answers

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