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Gallagher99
Gallagher99, Senior Vehicle Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 2982
Experience:  SVQ LEVEL 3, QAULIFIED FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN , ATA REGISTERD ,12 YEARS EXPERIENCE
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i have got a 2003 ford ka 1.3 duratec ( over head cam ) with

Customer Question

i have got a 2003 ford ka 1.3 duratec ( over head cam ) with nosiey top end i have checked the oil pressure and it is ok, replaced all of the hydraulic tappets and checked all of the oil feed to them, changed oil and oil filter but still sounds noisey from rocker cover.

Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 3 years ago.
Hi there ,good afternoon to you


Ok what oil pressure readings did you get at

1- 750 rpm /idle

2 - 2500rpm

What condition is the tip of the camshaft lobes in eg pitted
Has The diameter of the lobes been Measured

Has the vehicle ever been ran low on oil

Regards in advance

Brian


Customer: replied 3 years ago.

the oil pressure


idle : 1 bar when hot


2500rpm : 2.7 bar when hot


the cam lobes look ok, i have not measured the lobes, visually look the same, the car runs fine just noisey, never runned out of oil as far as i now

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 3 years ago.
Hi there ,thanks


Ok the oil pressure readings are spot on
If the rattling noise is from top end (under rocker ) cover
Then the next logical step would be to measure the camshaft lobes for uneven wear across the camshaft
But I haven't seen many issues regarding camshaft concerns
I have known people to use a thicker spec oil in these rocam engines in order to quieten them down
Eg 5w40
So this might be worth looking into

The 5w40 oil is now used in The new style KA fitted with the 1.2 petrol engine from a fiat 500


Regards Brian
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


i don't think it's the cam lobes, i am a car mechanic for 30 years, could it be possible for it to lose oil pressure throu the hydraulic chain tensoiner as this is fed before the hydraulic tappets, do they suffer from chain tensoiner problems

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 3 years ago.
Hi there ,

Ok as I said it is not an issue I have came across on the 8 valve rocam engine
The chain tensioner doesn't give any known issues as it is a screw in hydraulic tensioner unlike the ratchet/pawl type transit ones
It may be possible that the tensioner plunger isn't coming right out or sticking snd is unable to hold the correct tension on the chain runner /guide thus emitting a noise which can be transferred. Up Through. The engine
It is not something I have had or seen any issues with but as you will know being in this trade nothing is impossible
The tensioner just screws out the side if the head (27mm head )
this may be worth changing


If you need anymore help or advice on this issue please let me know
If you are completley satisfied with my answer /advice 
PLEASE RATE MY ANSWER 
Kind regards in advance and have a nice evening


Brian
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

i have already have removed the tensioner and looked at it piston was free moving and have tried a second hand one with no improvement to noise not sure if squeezing the piston in by fingers the oil should run past piston i rebuilt hundreds of engines in my time but this ones got me baffled ive asked over friends in the motor trade and they had no answer let alone seen a ohc ka engine

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 3 years ago.
Hi there ,good evening to you

Ok the 8valve rocam overhead cam engine isn't one we get a lot of problems with
The we're prone for head gaskets and misfires /plug lead issues
But apart from that they are a really solid engine
Obviously it is more difficult trying to solve an issue like this online as I cannot hear or visually look at the noise
I will speak to a few of my other colleagues/technicians and look deeper into your issue tommorow to see if anyone can shed any further light on this issue as I can understand your frustration on this matter and will get back to you ASAP

Kind regards in advance and have a nice Evening

Brian
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ok one thing i did find out was that chain tentioner is £140 and is on back order from fords

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 3 years ago.
Hi there
ok back ordered means it must be ordered straight from the factory and isn't something any parts department would keep in stock
Ok there is a few reasons for a part like this being on back order
due to the fact they don't fit this engine to any newer vehicles anymore the supply is limited
Eg they have stopped producing them at the factory as they are not required any more
The other is that they are so reliable (no known or common issues ) ford wouldn't see the need to stock pile a part they wouldn't sell on
On The flip side of that some parts ate in back order due to fords inability to keep up with the demand (common faulty parts eg boot release switches etc )

But I haven't seen anyone in my dealership replace a rocam timing chain in my 12 years at my dealership
But I will speak to a few other master /senior technicians from my other branches tommorow regarding this issue

I see back ordered parts being ordered almost every few days
They can take between 3 days and 3 weeks sonetimes longer


If you need anymore help or advice on this issue please let me know 
If you are completley satisfied with my answer /advice 
PLEASE RATE MY ANSWER 
Kind regards in advance and have a nice evening

Brian
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


still noise got me baffled the noise does sounds to me more like tappets than chain the front chain guide seems to float about at the top unless its held when rocker cover is fitted guide is plastic althou noise seems more metalic bit like a overhead valve fiesta or ka with noisey tappets it odd that its not noisey cold and worse when run for acouple of minutes the oil pressure still continues to rise above 2500 revs shame i cant run it without the rocker cover but not possible cause of cam sensor

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 3 years ago.
Hi there ,good afternoon to you

Ok I have done some More digging regarding your issue
All my fellow /senior /master technicians haven't had any issues regarding tappets /chains or /camshaft issues
However looking through my old technical notes and disscusding it with one of the older techs I have found something that may be of intrest regarding your noise
I had a fiesta (fitted with 1.3 rocam ) a few years back which came in to have a rattle/tapping noise checked out
I diagnosed this in the end as a piston slap (piston moving side to side as it moves up and down the bore )
This too was worse when warm
On inspection and removal of the pistons I found 2 shiny marks in the no 2/3 bore where the pistons had been slapping
The original noise sounded like tappets sticking or valve clearances needing adjust (eg OLD OHV engine )
Obviously I cannot hear the noise
But from your description this seems very similar to this job that was done several years ago

If you need anymore help or advice on this issue please let me know 
If you are completley satisfied with my answer /advice 
PLEASE RATE MY ANSWER 
Kind regards in advance and have a nice day  

Brian

Customer: replied 3 years ago.


ok the car does not smoke or use oil but i will try and do a compression test and also engine does not have lots of crankcase pressure normally caused by ring problem ?

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 3 years ago.
Hi there ,

Ok as I said before this noise sounded like a tappet sticking or a cracked bucket
The only visually evidence was 2 shiny marks on the piston body in line with gudgen pin
There was no smoke and the compressions were normal as it wasn't a ring issue
It was a worn piston body causing a noise when warm which was transferring through to the top of the engine
I can only give you advice based on my experience and knowledge of this rocam engine
I know how frustrating issues like this can be as I deal with similar issues on a daily basis


Regards in advance
Brian

Brian

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