How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask sean Your Own Question

sean
sean, Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 3104
Experience:  Ford Master Technician.
31670004
Type Your Ford Question Here...
sean is online now

In June 2014, the dpf filter blocked on my 2009 1.6tdci ford

Customer Question

In June 2014, the dpf filter blocked on my 2009 1.6tdci ford focus. I had this cleaned chemically by dpfclinic.com, a company based in Co. Clare, Ireland.
My mechanic reinstalled the clean dpf filter, and after some trouble managed to clear the fault code. The car drove well for a few months, even though the fuel economy never recovered to what it had previously been (55mpg).
In August I noticed that the oil level in the sump was rising. My mechanic then had the injectors reconditioned at substantial cost. This made no difference and the engine oil level continued to rise.
Through an elm OBDII reader and forscan software, I confirmed that the car was continually repeating a regeneration cycle every 10 minutes or so. It was definitely a time based repetition. This extra volume of diesel was causing leakage through the rings to the oil sump. There was a continuous alarm on the dpf PCM, P2458 - “dpf regeneration period too long”, but this did not show as an engine malfunction on the dash.
I took the car to a ford dealership. They verified that there was no fault with the dpf differential pressure sensor. They could not clear the fault from the PCM, and could not force a static regeneration on the dpf. They also deleted and reinstalled the software on the car. They did notice that there was an irregular turbo boost pressure and suggested this may be causing the fault. They checked the pressure sensor and confirmed it was good.
After paying a fortune in diagnostics I took the car back without resolution. Using Forscan, I managed to clear the P2458 fault through a procedure found on the internet involving unplugging the MAF, and then attempted a static regeneration. This was interrupted at an early stage and didn’t even start revving the engine.
After driving for another 6 weeks, the dpf is now blocked, is in limp home mode, and displaying the engine malfunction light on the dash. The PCM fault code is P242F. I have attempted another static regeneration, but it fails. I have driven the car far, but it has stopped continuously regenerating.
To buy a replacement dpf now would be a waste of money if the problem of continuous regeneration re-appears once the engine is reset.
Any idea what the problem is? What does turbo boost pressure have to do with regeneration cycle? Other people have mentioned glow plugs, and temperature sensors as possible causes.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello, I hope the following assists you.
If the DPF becomes so blocked that it can't be regenerated then the DPF needs to be renewed. As the PCM is constantly trying to regenerate the DPF this would suggest an excess fuel concern causing too much soot which the DPF can't cope with. The PCM is attempting regenerations to try to burn the soot off but there is either too much soot that it can't do it or there is a fault with a sensor/actuator that means the PCM detects a fault that stops it regenerating the DPF.
As you say there is no point replacing the DPF unless you cure the excess fuel problem. You mention the turbo boost the variable vanes are adjusted during regeneration to slow down gas flow into the DPF and also to try to prevent the turbo getting too hot although if more power is required from the engine during regeneration the vanes can be adjusted to suit, part of the regeneration procedure involves bypassing the intercooler to help raise the exhaust gas temperature.
It's possible for the EGR valve to cause regeneration concerns, a faulty injector, blocked air intake, stuck EGR throttle/intercooler by pass motor, failed DPF sensor, pipework, EGT sensor, MAF and failed glow plugs amongst other things can all cause problems (glow plugs are more for emission purposes now than cold start).
The fault is down to excess fuel cause by either too much fuel or not enough air, the DPF blockage is a consequence of this but now you have the problem that you won't be able to clear the DPF without replacing it. On non CDPF Focus the DPF is a serviceable item and should be replaced at 75000 miles regardless, only the CDPF isn't a serviceable item. Non CDPF models will have the small fuel additive tank under the car and a magnet on the fuel filler flap.
Before even worrying about the DPF fault now you need to resolve the excess fuel/ lack of air concern. The PCM can detect that the DPF is so blocked as to have failed so will not attempt to regenerate it any more.
I hope this helps but if I can provide further information let me know and I'll reply as soon as I'm able to.
Best wishes,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your in depth response. I do however, have a number of questions, and would greatly appreciate your input.



Just to confirm I have the dpf with the additive tank.



Is the software programmed to continuously attempt a regeneration if the cycle fails? I would think that it would stop attempting to regenerate after x attempts, and just give PCM alarm "regeneration period"?


I had a fault a number of months back for the fuel cap filler sensor, but my mechanic just cleared it without investigating. Could this contribute to the problem?



If the cycle is failing because of a sensor/actuator, would that not show on the PCM as a fault? i.e. if the turbo is faulty, would that not show? If the EGR is not stuck or faulty, would this show on the PCM? Same question for glow plugs and all sensors?



I had to replace the rubber tubing on the turbo inlet in August as this had split. The part came with a new MAF. Does this need calibrating? Could this be delivering too much/too little air?



Do I have to replace the dpf to diagnose the problem as the mechanic can't diagnose the problem without the car running?



Can you please list the other sensors that control the regeneration cycle please? temperature sensors etc..

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,
The PCM will stop trying to regenerate the DPF once the soot load is too high, up until this time it will try to regenerate the DPF as soon as the conditions are correct. Once the soot load is in excess of a preset amount the PCM detects this and "knows" regeneration isn't possible at which point it will stop.
Not all faults on sensors and actuators will be logged by the PCM, it can't detect certain mechanical failures for example it can detect the EGR valve position and movement but if the valve seat was allowing gas past this isn't detected or a temperature sensor can be reading minus 25 degrees C when it's actually + 40 degrees C as minus 25 degrees C is a valid figure for the PCM.
The PCM will only log faults when a sensor or actuator is outside preset parameters or an open/short circuit.
The fuel flap magnet sensor detects how many times the fuel tank is fuelled this is part of the calculations that the PCM and additive module use.
The MAF doesn't need programming when replaced.
With regard to the DPF the best option if you are going to replace the DPF is to remove the filter material, this way you can run the car to diagnose it without the filter you can assess the amount of smoke coming from the exhaust, excess black smoke would confirm excess fuel or lack of air causing the DPF problem.
With regard to the sensors for regeneration all the engine sensors are used, the EGR valve must be closed, the turbo vanes are usually set at a low boost, the EGT sensors need to read correctly, the IAT and ECT are measured, the DPF sensor, the throttle flap and intercooler by pass are used, the MAF and MAP are checked the CKP for engine speed.
The fact that a forced regeneration couldn't be used by Ford with IDS would suggest that there is a fault shiowing that the PCM won't allow a regeneration. Usually to perform a static regeneration the DPF and EGT sensor values need to be reset first.
Let me know if I can advise further.
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks Sean,

I had the static regeneration done by a local mechanic no problems. As soon as I got home I checked with the Forscan if this "dpf regeneration duration" alarm was still on: It was (P2458 - this doesn't show as an engine malfunction on the dash). I drove for 20 minutes to monitor the regeneration cycle, and unfortunately there has been no change: The dpf regeneration cycle is stuck repeating itself every 10 minutes or so. The dpf doesn't even need regeneration. Any thoughts?

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,
if the PCM is trying to regenerate the DPF constantly then there is either a pressure sensor fault causing the pcm to detect the PCM needs regenerating when it doesn't or the engine is producing so much soot the DPF can't cope with it. Check the DPF sensor voltage (pin 3 from memory) to see if the DPF is actually blocked or if the sensor is reading incorrectly.
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

DPF sensor has been checked and confirmed ok by the main dealer, the regeneration cycle constantly trys to repeat itself while driving even though the differential pressure doesn't exceed 16kPa.Fault P2458-61-PCM is not showing as an engine malfunction on the dash but is constantly present on the PCM. The ford dealer also tried to reprogram the PCM, and tried a de-install/re-install, but to no effect, fault still present.

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,
if the PCM is trying to regenerate all the time then there is something the PCM is detecting that is registering the DPF as loaded. What is the voltage from the DPF sensor that the PCM is detecting? This will determine straight away if the DPF sensor or wiring is causing the PCM to detect the DPF as blocked/loaded.
Let me know.
Thanks.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for the reply, it's reading 0.9V at 3000rpm, they say at 1.3V it goes to regeneration. But mine just keeps regenerating!

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,
0.9 volts indicates the DPF needs to regenerate anything more than 0.7 volts is considered too high, 1 volt would certainly need regenerating and anything more than 1.5 volts means the DPF is blocked beyond a regeneration this is why the PCM is constantly trying to regenerate the DPF. At ignition on the DPF sensor should be 0.5 volts.
The engine management needs checking, the temperature sensors, the bypass for the intercooler, the EGR operation and the turbo vane operation.
The PCM is trying to regenerate the DPF but there is a problem that means it's unable to do so.
Let me know if I can advise further.
Best regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks, ***** ***** it the static dpf regeneration cycle completes itself successfully, but the forced regeneration doesn't? If there was a fault with any of the components mentioned above, would they not interrupt the static regeneration also? I had a static regeneration done successfully, and haven't measured dpf sensor voltage since, but can see that it drives with a value no greater than 15kPa, whereas before static regeneration it measured 25kPa under the same conditions.

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,
you need to check the DPF voltage before and after a static regeneration to tell if it has completed correctly or if it is the diagnostic equipment saying it has completed when in fact it hasn't been successful, I would always measure the voltage of the DPF sensor at the PCM to check what the PCM sees rather than measuring the pressure.
The fact remains from the information you've given the PCM is detecting a DPF sensor voltage that is considered to be to the point the DPF needs regenerating which is why it keeps attempting to do so.
The static regeneration can depend on which diagnostic equipment is used, Ford IDS tends to fail on most static regenerations due to the EGT sensors.
Let me know if I can advise further.
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello, can you tell me where the PCM is on the 1.6tdci 2009?

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,
the PCM is on the left side in the front section of the front wheel arch, it is inside a plastic cover, if you remove the wheel arch liner at the front you'll see the cover.
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello, I checked the voltage it's reading 0.6Volts at 200rpm when the car is stationary. Seems OK? Just because the sensor is ok at the reference condition, does this also mean that it perfoms well/accurately under loaded conditions. The voltage can't be tested under a loaded condition, that's when this fault appears. I saw this faulty occuring when the pressure reached 7Kpa on the Forscan software. This happened repeatedly. (see attachment). I underastand 7kPa may not be the true vale, but something is happening that is causing this fault to appear and initiate the aformentioned repeated regeneration cycle. You may say that this is the loading value on the dpf that initiates the cycle, but why does it re-occur. Shouldn't the PCM just attempt one (or two) cycles, then the "P2458 - regeneration period" fault appear.

I'll try a new sensor just to eliminate this as a cause. Are these plug and play or do they need calibration/configuration??

I appreciate your continued support,

Regards.

Attachment: 2015-02-20_134009_dpf.pdf

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again.
The DPF sensor doesn't need to be programmed. I would say 7 Kpa is why the DPF needs regenerating. The PCM detecting the 7 Kpa will cause it to try to regenerate. Everything points to the DPF needing regenerating. If the DPF sensor reading is accurate which it appears to be then the DPF may indeed be blocked, again a reason for the PCM to keep trying to regenerate it.
I suspect the static regenerations carried out haven't in fact been successful.The PCM will carry on trying to regenerate the DPF until it is considered beyond regeneration at which point P242f will be logged.
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you, ***** ***** regeneration is started because of a high differential pressure across the filter, why does the alarm "P2458 - Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Duration" appear immediately (I..e at the beginning of the regeneration)? Should it not appear after a set duration when if fails to detect a reduction in differential pressure? Is it normal for the PCM to log this alarm at the beginning of a regeneration cycle, like it is doing in my case?

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again.
Are you sure that the code just isn't been deleted and is actually there all the time? What happened to the original P242f code from the original fault of the DPF been blocked. Please bear in mind Forscan is in no way a substitute for Ford IDS so some problems you are experiencing could well be to do with this.
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank You, ***** ***** Forscan is inferior to the IDS software, but I can clear the P2458 fault, and drive fine without any DTC until I reach the 7/8Kpa on the dpf sensor. Then the "DTC Count" parameter goes from 0 to 1, and P2458 appears immediately.

The P242F fault only came up once and, after static regeneration, was cleared and has not come back. That said, I haven't been driving the car, only for diagnostic purposes!

When I brought the car to the ford garage with P2458, they could not clear this DTC using IDS, and spent the full day trying to diagnose the problem. They were even unable to perform a static regeneration. It was only when the filter blocked (P242F), that a local mechanic did a static regeneration. Ford did un-install and re-install the PCM.

Because of all this I am wondering is there a fault with the PCM and it needs replacing?

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
It is possible there is a problem with the PCM but at the moment it functions as it should, it is detecting a DPF that needs regenerating and attempting to do this. If you haven't already tried then drive the car for a good distance at a good engine speed and give the PCM chance to do a dynamic regeneration, it may be that driving a short distance until you see the DTC logged isn't far enough to let the PCM complete a regeneration, don't forget the warning light and message isn't coming on so the PCM doesn't consider this a problem to alert you to it. I believe the code can be logged when the PCM hasn't had chance to complete a regeneration.
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you, ***** ***** confirm definitively that its is normal for the PCM to log P2458 at the beginning of a regeneration cycle, and not when the set duration has elapsed without successful regeneration?

It would seem logical that, since the DTC descriptor is "Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Duration", it would wait until the set time for duration has elapsed before logging the code?

I have driven on the open road for a prolonged period, but have seen the regeneration continually repeat itself every 10 minutes.

Expert:  sean replied 1 year ago.
Hello again.
P2458 is a DPF regeneration duration code (it doesn't specify too long too short) the failure byte 61 you gave earlier is a signal calculation failure so yes this code can be set at the beginning of the regeneration. You mention that you can see the DPF start and repeat itself, does the Forscan give regeneration in progress yes or no as a parameter? Or which signals are you using to tell you the PCM is trying to regenerate?
Regards,
Sean.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Thank You,


No Forscan doesn't give a "regeneration in progress" status, but I see the EGR valve shut to 0% and EGT rise to 600degC, it normally runs at 200-250degC.

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • 9 dollars, 2 hours of my time, and I drove away. Your diagnosis was right on the mark. Thank you so much. Phil
< Previous | Next >
  • 9 dollars, 2 hours of my time, and I drove away. Your diagnosis was right on the mark. Thank you so much. Phil
  • Lurch. Thank you very much. I had real doubts about this website but your promptness of response, quick followup and to the point answer with picture was incredible. Charles
  • As a single woman, I really appreciate an excellent and affordable opinion.
    Thank you Geordie, I will not hesitate to contact justanswer in the future!
    Sue
  • Another great insight to what may be the problem. I will have my mechanic take a look at it tomorrow. Thanks again, Frank...you do indeed know your stuff. Jim
  • I would (and have) recommend your site to others I was quite satisfied with the quality of the information received, the professional with whom I interacted, and the quick response time. Thanks, and be sure that I'll be back whenever I need a question answered in a hurry. Stephanie P
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C.
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Matt

    Matt

    Mechanical Engineer

    Satisfied Customers:

    173
    BEng hons Mech engineering, in auto industry 22 years
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/35/350matt/2012-6-7_182356_matsavatr.64x64.jpg Matt's Avatar

    Matt

    Mechanical Engineer

    Satisfied Customers:

    173
    BEng hons Mech engineering, in auto industry 22 years
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MI/mikeamechanic/2013-4-2_175558_photo.64x64.JPG Mike Kelly's Avatar

    Mike Kelly

    Ford Mechanic

    Satisfied Customers:

    140
    17 years experience as an auto mechanic, foreign and domestic. 5 years running my own repair business.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/FO/fordspec/DSC00877.64x64.JPG fordspec's Avatar

    fordspec

    Ford Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    11
    ford technician
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/AL/allagher/2015-6-23_213635_image.64x64.jpg Gallagher99's Avatar

    Gallagher99

    Senior Vehicle Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    532
    SVQ LEVEL 3, QAULIFIED FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN , ATA REGISTERD ,12 YEARS EXPERIENCE
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/FO/fordtwo/2014-12-19_163422_arrepair.64x64.jpg Robert's Avatar

    Robert

    Ford Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    39
    Fully qualified 19+yrs exp/self employed technician in the UK
  • /img/opt/shirt.png Mark's Avatar

    Mark

    Auto Service Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    59
    Qualified City & Guilds