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Gallagher99
Gallagher99, Senior Vehicle Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 2982
Experience:  SVQ LEVEL 3, QAULIFIED FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN , ATA REGISTERD ,12 YEARS EXPERIENCE
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I have a problem with '00 Fiesta with 1.8DI engine. It became to stutter in ce

Customer Question

Hello. I have a problem with '00 Fiesta with 1.8DI engine. It became to stutter in certain situations.
The most noticeable would be the stuttering under light load, under 2krpm, right after gear change, irritating the most on 2-4th gear, but happening in all gears. When I floor the pedal right after gear change' it'll pull like a train, but when I gently press the pedal, it can stutter throughout the whole rev range, being the most bizarre fault I've ever encountered in that engine.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there good evening to you
Ok is this fault a hesitation /jerking feel more so when cruising in traffic on light throttle
Regards Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

In short: yes. It's very problematic to drive under 2krpm for a longer period (say, a minute) without the jerking. That effect intensifies when you turn on the A/C. It seems like the engine is starting to jerk just when the A/C compressor clutch engages even if it was running fine for some time under 2krpm.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Does this fault happen if the AC is off
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Yes it does.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi thanks
the most common cause of this occurance ie: hesitating or jumping during low speeds ie: 1500-2000rpm
is a faulty clutch switch activating too early as the pedal is depressed. To rectify this concern we replaced the clutch switch
This can sometimes also be brought on by resting your foot on the clutch pedal during low speed driving
Other issues which can cause this type of issue are mass air flow sensor issues or EGR valve concerns
Ideally a live datalogger road test should be carried out as this allows the technician to monitor the fault in real time and visually see what the relavent sensors /switches are doing
If you need anymore help or advice on this issue please let me know
If you are Completely satisfied with my answer /advice
PLEASE RATE MY ANSWER
Kind regards ***** ***** and have a nice evening
Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Since this engine is not equipped with MAF sensor and only MAP sensor, it's a dead end.

Same for the EGR that was completely removed some time ago.

The road test was done, but nobody could determine why does it happen.

I'll check the clutch switch in the morning, however I clearly state that I don't touch the clutch pedal besides the time when I want to change the gear, so the only option would be that it broke because of wear.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there
No worries
Some early TDDI engines did have the MAF Fitted but we can now rule out this and EGR system
I will continue to look into this issue for you but the clutch switches did cause us this concern in the 1.8tddi varient
Regards ***** ***** Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I've checked the clutch sensor and it's working fine. When the pedal is pressed I get infinite resistance reading, and if it's not pressed, I get about 0.4 Ohms, and that would be the resistance of the cables.

I also disconnected the plug, checked how car behaves getting info that the clutch is always engaged and then I've short-wired it to get the opposite effect. Either way the car was still juddering.

Besides that I decided to check if accelerator pedal is being read correctly and when I held the engine at about 1500rpm, it started to gain RPMs but itself. It stopped at about 2krpm and then it sometimes dropped to about 1850rpm and after a short while got back at 2krpm. I repeated the test a few times and the result was always the same. When I held the engine at ~1400rpm, it didn't speed up, so it's clearly related to the certain RPM range which may be related to that kangarooing.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there ,good morning to you and sorry for the delayed response
Ok this is the area I was going to discuss next
Is there any vibrations through the throttle pedal when this fault occurs
Regards Brian
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there
What is the reg number of your vehicle
Is the accelerator fly by wire or cable actuated at the pump as 2000my is when it differs
Regards Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

It's the "fly-by-wire" version, there are no steel lines here. I guess the question about "vibrations" doesn't cover that case.

Also, my reg number won't tell you a thing as I'm not from UK. I can give you my VIN, but I'd rather not reveal it to the public.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there it's ok I won't need this infornstion as I just wanted to see what the setup was
Ok if it's flyby wire turns it post 2/2000
If you can leave this with me I'll look further into this issue
Regards Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

Yes, it's from March to be exact.

I'll wait then, I hope you'll be able to come up with something as guys here hit the dead end and it's all guessing festival right now. Smile

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there
Has the injector leak offs been tested on a4/5 minute idle
Regards Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

I haven't done a test like that. I'll get proper hoses and I'll check it.

edit: It'll take a day or two more, since I couldn't find a hose with so small diameter during the weekend.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
No worries
Regards Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Okay, I did the test and after over 10 minutes of idle running the cups I've used as a tank for the fuel that was meant to flow were empty. Since I've used transparent (3mm inner diameter) hoses, I've measured the distance the fuel travelled and counting from the distribution belt the results were: 10, 14, 20 & 8 centimetres.

It seems that the amount of fuel is unbelievably low, therefore everything seems to be ok [regarding the videos I've seen on the net when someone points out faulty injector(s)], but I'll let you be the judge.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there thanks
Is this reading after 10 minutes of idle ?
If so it seems excessiy low as I would be looking for around 20-30 ml in each bottle (test bottles )
ok I have looked into this issue and have also discussed this issue with a few of my colleagues and I suspect that a fault with one or more of the fuel injectors is causing this issue
Partial /incomplete combustion can occur if the spray pattern of the injectors is not finely or evenly distributed into the cylinder. When accelerating, the extra fuel could disrupt the spray pattern for a faulty injector, causing the flat spot/hesitation.
Have you tried some good injector cleaner ran through the system
Regards
Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

It's after about 620 seconds of idle running.

Maybe the amount of fuel is so small because of the modifications that the car/engine underwent. Factory 75HP/140Nm has been recently tuned to 112HP/250Nm, so more fuel should go into the combustion chamber (why would it happen even on idle, when there's no load on the engine, I don't know, maybe it's just the way it works?).

Anyway, besides adding Skydd during the winter, I didn't add anything else. Would you recommend adding a bottle to a full fuel tank (or similar amount) or something I've seen on the net, like plugging the fuel feed line that goes from the filter to the pump to the cleaner bottle and running the engine just on that?

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there
Ok I always advise using Forte Specialist Injector Cleaner as this has resolved many issues I have had over the years with driveability concerns where injector nozzle issues are suspected
This is avaiable online at many sites
This is added into the tank and mixes with the fuel
Regards ***** *****
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok, I'll check it and I'll report back.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
No worries
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

I've performed the cleaning and unfortunately I can't see any improvement, the car still stutters.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there good evening to you
Ok the next step needs to be a live datalogger test whilst monitoring the signals of the vehicles sensors with the fault present
Ie ,fuel pressure , throttle pedal signal , map sensor ,maf sensor etc
To see if we can see any irregularities in the signals as this seems to be a very strange issue
Also It may well be that an injector is not spraying properly thus the injectors should to be sent away and tested to rule this out
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I already did something like that with FORScan, I even have saved the logged data and I can't see anything suspicious.

I've triple-checked the TPS and it's readings are okay on all 3 resistance/voltage sensors. Also it was replaced some time ago for a brand new one, as the old one has caused some problems (excessive wear; incorrect readings led to engine shutdown at certain throttle position).

The MAP data also looks okay, I could easily compare the output voltage/pressure with the analogue reading (I have a boost gauge).

IAT data looks okay - on various loads I can see a reading between 28-38 deg Celsius (outside temperature was 20-something on that day).

And that'd be about the sensors I have access to, not counting ones like CHT, ECT, etc.

And if the injector(s) would be at fault, wouldn't that stutter occur in the whole rev range?

Small update: I've replaced the functioning but old IAT with a brand new one. The readings were a bit different (about few ohms), but in the end it didn't change the cars behaviour. I've tested MAP readings on other sensor - it was 1:1 with the original/current one.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dunno how the system here would treat my response now, as the question is marked as closed (strange...), but if it'll work, could you answer my question please?

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there good evening to you
I have just there noticed your reply as i received no notification
From your description I would still suspect and injector issue as your symptoms are signs of a missfire symptom possible caused by poor spray pattern
If possible I would remove and have the injectors pressure tested for spray defects
An injector issue can most commonly happen at certain rev ranges (not right through the Rev range )
Regsrds Brian
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Oh, great it's working :)

And regarding injectors - replacing the nozzles (for bigger ones) would be far cheaper than checking & fixing the current ones (assuming they're faulty). Would that be okay?

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there
Yes this would be ok but I would advise having the tested
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Okay, I'll do it in the nearest future and get back with the results.

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 1 year ago.
Hi there no worries
We can continue on this same post even after rating or status saying closed
The question still stays open
Kind regards ***** *****
Brian

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