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Shirley
Shirley, Genealogy Consultant
Category: Genealogy
Satisfied Customers: 390
Experience:  Help with your Genealogy and Family History research.
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I WOULD LIKE TO DEAL WITH XXXXX XXXXXPH AGAIN, PLEASEDear

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I WOULD LIKE TO DEAL WITH XXXXX XXXXXPH AGAIN, PLEASE Dear XXXXXn, back in August you helped me in tracing my great grandfather Henry Gough, as above. You checked the admiralty records and informed me that he was born on 28 November 1850 in Southampton, Hants. I accessed the BMD records, but could find no trace of him. So I ordered the birth certificate from GRO, stating that I did not have details of the quarter in which he was born, but asking them to search from 1849 to 1851 inclusive (obviously, I gave them Southampton as his birthplace). They came back to me with the following: "We have searched the indexes for events registered in England & Wales during the years specified (1849-1851). We have been unable to find any entry with the details you provided". I checked the 1871 census, and sure enough Henry Gough (age 20. born Southampton) is listed as a crew member of the HMS Duke of Wellington, in Portsmouth harbour. Where on earth do I go from here in locating g-granddad's birth record, so that I can order his birth certificate? Please help! Thanks and regards, XXXXX XXXXX PS Addtl info: I tried to "think outside the box" by checking BMD records for years slightly beyond 1850. I found a Henry Gough born in 1852 in Hants, so I speculated that he may have lied to the Navy about his age so that he could join up! I ordered the birth certificate, only to find that it's not him - it's someone born in Berkshire (apparently Berks and Hants were grouped together in birth records)

Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Genealogy
Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 3 years ago.
Hi Gavin

Welcome to Just Answer, my name isXXXXX will be researching your question today.

Your Henry is a bit of a mystery, we have his naval record with his exact date of birth, 1871 he is on a ship in Southampton, 1878 he marries in South Africa, 1904 he is still in SA

DEPOT VAB
SOURCE CO
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 255
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 772/04
PART 1
DESCRIPTION CAPTAIN HENRY GOUGH: PERMIT BY TO IMPORT ONE DOUBLE-BARRELLED
SHOTGUN, FORWARDED FOR SIGNATURE.
STARTING 19040000
ENDING 19040000

There is nothing on him in SA after 1904, no estate record which would give date of death, was his fathers name recorded on his marriage certificate.

Brendan
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hi Brendan


Trying to get genealogical information out of South Africa is a bit of a nightmare (I speak from experience). Anyway, I'm not sure that this type of info would be available - I can get in touch with my genealogical contact in SA if needs be, but I would prefer to avoid this if possible.


 


A few questions:


1. Do you have any idea why Henry's birth would not be registered? - I thought this was compulsory in the 1850s.


2. Could the fact that he was born in Southampton provide a clue - born on board a ship, perhaps? (I'm probably grasping at straws here)


3. Would the navy records perhaps show his next of kin? (who would presumably be his father when he enlisted)


4. Have you any idea at all of what, if any, steps I can take to track him down? All I want, really, is the name of his parents so that I can research the family backwards.


 


Any help you can give me will be much appreciated!


 


Regards, Gavin


 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Relist: Incomplete answer.
Expert:  Shantal-Mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello Gavin,

I've been working hard to find another Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you,

Shantal
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hello Shantal


 


Yes, I am prepared to wait for a while for an answer.


 


If you haven't found an alternative professional within the next 48 hours, please let me know.


 


I look forward to hearing from you one way or the other.


 


Thanks


Gavin Meeser

Expert:  Shantal-Mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

Thank you for getting back to me. We will continue to look for another Professional to assist you.

Thank you for your patience,

Shantal
Expert:  Shirley replied 3 years ago.
Hello and welcome. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will be helping you locate an answer to your question. Since I do not have access to your previous conversations with Brendan, would you be so kind as to repeat your original question and the answer you received? As soon as I receive that information I can begin research. I await your reply.
Thank you,
Shirley
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hello Shirley


Thank you for getting in touch.


 


Back in August last year, I was seeking details of my great grandfather Henry Gough, who was in the Royal Navy. I gave Brendan his name, the name of his ship, and the approximate date of his birth. On this occasion Brendan came up trumps, because this is what he found for me:


 


Henry was born 28th November 1850 in Southampton, Hampshire, England, there is no death date, he must have left the navy.

Name Gough, Henry. Official Number: 61770. Place of Birth: Southampton, Hampshire. Date of Birth: 28 ...
Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services. Registers. Name Gough, Henry. Official Number: 61770. Place of Birth: Southampton, Hampshire. Date of Birth: 28 November 1850.
Collection:Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodiesDate range: 01 January 1873 - 31 December 1873 Reference:ADM 188/41/61770Subjects:Armed Forces (General), Navy


 


I duly ordered Henry's birth certificate from the GRO (I couldn't find him in the BMD registers, but I asked the GRO to search) but they came back to me saying that there is no record of him! (I asked them to search from 1849 to 1851 inclusive).


 


I checked the 1871 census and sure enough, there is a 20-year old Henry Gough, born Southampton, listed as a seaman on board the HMS Duke of Wellington in Portsmouth harbour. So he definitely existed! But why no record of his birth, and where do I go from here to try to trace him? (What I am after is the names of his parents, so that I can trace the family tree backwards).


 


In a nutshell, these are the questions I would like to put to you:


 


1. Do you have any idea why Henry's birth would not be registered? - I thought this was compulsory in the 1850s.


 


2. Could the fact that he was born in Southampton provide a clue - born on board a ship, perhaps? (I'm probably grasping at straws here)


 


3. Would the navy records perhaps show his next of kin? (who would presumably be his father when he enlisted)


 


4. Have you any idea at all of what, if any, steps I can take to track him down?


 


I look forward to hearing from you!


 


Thanks


Gavin Meeser

Expert:  Shirley replied 3 years ago.
Hello Gavin,

I located two documents I think you will be pleased with.

England and Wales Census, 1871
Name: Henry Gough
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 20
Birthplace: Southampton, Hampshire
Schedule Type: Vessel
Registration District: Portsea Island
Parish: Portsea
County: Hampshire
Source: England and Wales Census, 1871, “index and images, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VFDN-CHN: accessed 12 Feb 2014), Henry Gough, 1871.

England and Wales, Death Registration Index 1837-1920
Name: Henry George Goffe
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1888
Registration District: Southampton
County: Hampshire
Event Place: Southampton, Hampshire, England
Volume: 2C
Page: 11
Line Number: 52
Source: “England and Wales, Death Registration Index 1837-1920, “index, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2V52-XMT : accessed 12 Feb 2014), Henry George Goffe, 1888

As you can see from the death index, his name was misspelled and that is probably why you haven’t been able to locate his death certificate. As an aside, just because vital registration was supposed to start on a certain date, does not mean that it did or that it did for all areas.
I wish you continued success with your research.
Thank you,
Shirley
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hello Shirley


 


Thank you for this. But....


 


1. I already know about the entry in the 1871 census - please see my original message to you, above - the bit starting I checked the 1871 census......


 


 


2. It is not Henry's DEATH record that I couldn't find, but his BIRTH record. (Please read my original message again!). I didn't look for his death certificate because I'm not sure that he died in the UK. His Navy career took him to South Africa, and that is where he met and married my great grandmother.


 


This Henry George Goffe who's death you have identified, may or may not be the same person. I assume you have ready access to the BMD registers? So, would you be able to look for Henry George Goffe, born Southampton, around 1850, and let me know the result? If you would kindly do this for me, I would be happy to sign off this matter as satisfactorily completed.


 


Thanks and regards


 


Gavin Meeser

Expert:  Shirley replied 3 years ago.
Hello Gavin,

Please excuse my oversight of what you are looking for. I will do my best to answer the four questions you listed.

1. The registration of births, marriages, and deaths actually began in 1837. Are you sure you’re checking the correct registration district? Copies of the certificates can be obtained from the Family Records Centre in Islington.

2. It is doubtful he was born aboard a ship. You should check other towns in the county.

3. His military records could hold a treasury of information on Henry. Especially if he received a pension.

4. A few websites you could check for birth or military records;

Birth Registrations www.oz.net/-markhow/ukbirths.htm

Civil Registrations www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/civreg/

Military Records www.genuki.org.uk/big/BritMilRecs.html

You should familiarize yourself with the holdings of the LDS Family History Library and the procedure for ordering microfilm. An excellent book to reach both these goals is “Your Guide to the Family History Library”, by Paula Stewart Warren and James W. Warren.
You might also work through his siblings. On several occasions I have been able to locate what I needed by using a collateral relative.
I hope this information is helpful.
Thank you,
Shirley
Shirley, Genealogy Consultant
Category: Genealogy
Satisfied Customers: 390
Experience: Help with your Genealogy and Family History research.
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