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Thomas
Thomas, Lawyer
Category: Immigration Law
Satisfied Customers: 7569
Experience:  UK Lawyer holding practising certficate for England & Wales.
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Hi,I have submit my naturalization application last month

Customer Question

Hi, I have submit my naturalization application last month via NCS service but forget to mentioned one court fine details.

Court fine was in August 2009 and after that I got My ILR and did not mentioned in that application as well because court clerk told us its non recorded offense.

Now we submit naturalization application and informed to NCS council immigration officer and he chcked with home office and told us if no police involved no need to declare.

Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Immigration Law
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
Thanks for your question.
What was the fine for please?
Kind regards,
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I was using my wife monthly travel card on London underground. I was not aware that I can not use.

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
Thanks.
Did you receive a fixed penalty notice for this?
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Court fine me

and letter heading is offences and penalties

travel on railaway without paying fare 260

court cost 150+15+3.20

total amount 428 pound.

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Okay.
The notice that you received should state when you had to pay the fine by. Did you pay the fine in time?
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Time on the notice to pay was 07 -09-2009 and I talked with them and agree to clear all payment till 31-10-2009 and paid all the amount

so I paid all the amount on 31/10/2009

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Okay.
Did you actually dispute the charge at court in a hearing?
Kind regards,.
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

on First hearing I said i am not plead guilty and then court give me further date to come on which I did not appear because of sickness and forward medical certificate to them from my Doctor. I received a phone call from the court and on the phone they fine me.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

on First hearing I did not plead guilty and on 2nd one I did not go due to sickness so they decide in my absence and fine me which I paid.

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Thank you for your question and patience, I’m Tom and I’ll try to help you.
Basically, if you received a fixed penalty notice or penalty charge notice then provided you paid the amount due before it was required and did not defend the matter at court then it would not count on your criminal records. This would mean that you would not need to declare it on your naturalisation form.
If you received a fixed penalty notice or penalty charge notice but then defended it in court but lost and were fined then it would count as a criminal record,
If you plead not guilty and were ultimately fined then this is likely to be a criminal conviction. If this is the case then you would have to wait until it is spent 5 years after it occurred.
I am really sorry but if this is what has happened then it’s likely that your naturalisation application will be rejected on this basis.
My goal is to provide you with a good service. If you feel you have received anything less, please reply back as I am happy to address follow-up issues specifically relating to your question.
Kind regards,
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

thanks. i was fined on 17/09/2014 but i paid on 31/10/2014 . i did not declare on ilr application it was successful but i again did not declare on naturalization application.

if i withdraw my application will this affect and how can i withdraw

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
It's a bit difficult to actually know what has gone on without seeing the relevant documentation.
If this was recorded as a criminal conviction (ie. because you defended it at court and were fined) and you did not declare it as such on your ILR application then I would normally expect them to reject it
You would have to write to them confirming that you wished to withdraw the application and resubmit it, but they would keep your application fee...
Tom
Tom+
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

There is no original document with the application only my life in the UK certificate as I applied via Councile Nationality Checking service

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Can they also reject my ilr as well?

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
I would not expect them to reject your ILR if you have already obtained it.
Tom
Thomas, Lawyer
Category: Immigration Law
Satisfied Customers: 7569
Experience: UK Lawyer holding practising certficate for England & Wales.
Thomas and other Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for your help. according to New law if there is court fine I can apply after 24 month. I think rehabilitation law change. My only worry is might be they cancel my ilr as well because I did not declare in my ilr application. It's almost 5 years mow of that offense.

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
Due to the length of time that has passed I doubt they would be able to revoke your ILR.
Sorry, I've just re-checked, for out of court sentence an application will normally refused if it is less than 3 years old. So the offence is not an issue any more.
The only way that they could reject the application would be to argue that by not disclosing the offence, but you would prbably be able to argue that because you paid the fine you did not believe it was a criminal offence.
Tom
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks they convicted me railway by law and one of your colleague say it's not criminal offense on another forum

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Yes, I think she was saying that on the basis that if you paid the fine without defending it at court then it would not be an offence. That is correct.
However, if you defended it at court by entering a "not guilty" plea and end up losing (which it appears you may have done) and only then paid the fine then it would be regarded as a criminal offence under the immigration rules
However, because of the lapse of time since the incident you will probably be okay..
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply. I got my first visa Tier1 extension in in Year 2009 and I did not declare this offense and then Last Year in my ILR application I again did not declare this offense. Actually Its truth I was not aware its an offense as duty clerk told me its non recorded offense and she said to me that she can not further explain nature of this offense but its very minor offense you should need not to worry about this.

I also met with council immigration person who checked my documents and send me naturalization application to home office he said as this offense 5 years old it will not be considered. Minor offense only with in last 3 years.

Please advise me whats the best option for me now from following options.

1. With Draw my application and lose fee (I am happy to lose fee) and then do you know after how many years this offense I don't need to declare at all ?

2. send a letter of explanation to home office now and explain I forget to mention this offense in my previous applications as well as in Naturalization application as this was fine and was non recorded offense.

3. Don't do any think and pray for the decision ?

Please advise me

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
I would probably wait and see what happens with the application..
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

ok Thanks a lot. how can i give rate to your service

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
You already have..
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

is my question can every one see ? If yes can you set this as private so its not available for any other memebrs

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
I will ask the moderators to remove..
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi please see attached pic of application form where it ask for criminal convictions. My understanding is should declare spent conviction as well which I did not declare

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,
I will answer tomorrow.
Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi please can you also stop rate my answer email. I am receiving two emails in an hour

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi
I have no control over the emails that get sent.
Tom

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