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Nicola-mod
Nicola-mod, Moderator
Category: Immigration Law
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I would like to know how someone who illegally work on a visitor

Customer Question

I would like to know how someone who illegally work on a visitor visa in the Uk could bring his own child from abroad?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Immigration Law
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi
Thanks for your patience. .
How old is the child?
What nationality is the child's other parent?
Kind regards
Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
Both parents are Egyptians citizens. They have 4 children aged 8,6,3,1. The 3 years old is the one in question. Father is working illegally in the UK since 2012 on visitor visa . Mother lives with all 4 children in Egypt.
Regards
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi Thank you for your question and patience, I’m Tom and I’ll try to help you. I am sorry but there is no way under the visa rules that the family could be brought here.He is illegally in the UK. This means that he has no legal right to be here and if the home office catch up with him then he will be subject to deportation proceedings.The fact that he has worked here for a fairly long period of time is not relevant to the situation because he does not accrue any additional rights.The only possibility would be if he were able to claim asylum, but it would have to be a genuine claim that was successful:https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/overview If he were successful in doing so then the children/wife could probably come here and do the same.In all cases except asylum though he is not eligible. Even if he left the UK and attempt to apply for a work visa he would almost certainly be rejected because it would be clear that he has breached the immigration rules by overstaying an earlier visa. My goal is to provide you with a good service. If you feel you have received anything less, please reply back as I am happy to address follow-up issues specifically relating to your question. Kind regards,Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Sorry, Tom. I am not satisfied with your answer, I am afraid. The child has been brought already here 2 days ago. I wanted to know how this could be possible. Travelling with someone else? How legal is that?
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi, Sorry I thought you were asking about bringing the remaining ones here. As to the child who has apparently come here 2 days ago, this is very VERY surprising. This is because the child would normally be expected to have traveled with their parent. In order to travel with another person, the person would have to have proof that the parents of the child consented to the child travelling with the person in question.This might be in the form of a guardianship order obtained from the proper government authority in Egypt. To get this I would expect that both parents would have to prove their identities to the authority first and go through a formal process, then the documents would have to be translated in to English for the purpose of proving the right to enter the UK to the home office.Kind regards,Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi, Tom,
I am still not satisfied. I would like to know what could be the possible explanation from legal point of view that guardian is bringing to the UK such young child. I suppose that parents appearance happened in May when father traveled to Egypt. But he came back to the UK on 15th of May. Now how this could happen. I mean Home Office should have known that father is already in the UK when child has traveled with his guardian. Isn't it a legal obligation for guardian to confirm that one of the parents is in the UK? Who should be notified for removal of the father and child and how?
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
If a person has a guardianship order then it would not be necessary to prove that a parent was in the UK. A guardian in this way stands entirely in the place of the parents, with all those consequent rights.
If the father left the UK in May of this year when he was already illegally in the UK then he would not be able to simply re-enter the UK. It would not happen. This suggests that the father may have some other form of long term visa allowing him to leave/re-enter the UK (eg a work visa)
Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi, Tom,
You wrote 'If the father left the UK in May of this year when he was already illegally in the UK then he would not be able to simply re-enter the UK. It would not happen. This suggests that the father may have some other form of long term visa allowing him to leave/re-enter the UK (eg a work visa)Yes, he has. It is not working visa thought. I wrote earlier 'Father is working illegally in the UK since 2012 on visitor visa'. I have more questions. Sorry, but I need to clarify the situation to myself because the father is fraudster. So you are saying that guardianship means that the person who become guardian took all legal rights from parents. Then if child actually lives with his father after entering UK with his guardian, then it is obvious fraud and sidestepping of the guardianship. Right? Could this be considered as child trafficking? Or smuggling? Sorry, I am not aware with this legal terminology. Who has to be notified of what is going on? Who is in charge of guardianship permissions to bring children over here. Court? Which court?
I think the father is planning to bring over all his children with different guardians. This is obvious loophole in the UK immigration law.
I would appreciate your explanation. I know that case is not ordinary but as soon as I understand what is going on and what could be done I will be able to explain more.
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
A guardinship order would allow the guardian the same rights that the parents would have. It would be granted by the civil court in Egypt.
Basically, I'm fairly sure that you are being lied to somewhere. The situation as described to you is not credible. The father would not be able to leave and re-enter the UK without a valid visa,
Similarly, with the father being in the UK it seems unlikely that they would easily be able to obtain a guardianship order.
Even if the kids were brought over here then this would still not afford any of them the right to stay in the UK.
If you consider that the person in question should be referred to the home office for investigation
https://www.gov.uk/report-immigration-crime
Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi, Tom,
The person is conman. He lies all the time. He is fraudster. But, unfortunately, the situation is as I describe it. I saw his passport only couple of months ago and I know exactly what visa he has. Unless something has changed of which I am not aware of and he has been granted an asylum seeker status within last 3 weeks, but it seems unlikely that this could have happened. I has his passport number and his visitor visa number and know for sure that he has visitor visa. I know when visa has been issued and when he entered UK with this visa for the first time. I know when he traveled outside UK as he lives this country every 6 months to avoid overstaying his visitor visa. I know the name of the company he works for, his manager name and telephone number, their HQ address, even name and contact details of their HR manager. I know his national insurance number, because his taxes are paid from his wages to HMRC tax office. I know his Barclays bank account details because his wages are paid directly to this account. J know that both NIN and Varclays account has been arranged BEFORE his visitor visa was issued. Perhaps he had a single entry visa to the UK then. Nevertheless, I know his payroll number and I know how much he earns every week. I also saw and has details of an Italian ID card he has. This card was supposedly issued ina Palermo, Sicily in the spring of 2012. And let me assure you - this card is false, he has never been in Italy let's alone living there. He has no idea what 'Si' means in Italian. I know this man well. Really well. And I know that all this has been planned since 2010. He is smug and he does not hide it. His picture with his son staying at bus stop in London on 5th of August was published on his facebook page 3 days ago. Let me tell you a little bit more. He published more pictures on his facebook page yesterday. Images taken yesterday - Saturday, 8th of August - in Disneyland, Oxford Street in London. And let me tell you the news - all 4 children are now in London. How about that? So to sum it up - migrant, Illegally obtaining National Insurance Number and illegally working in the UK since 2012, brings all his 4 children aged between 1 and 7 in London and takes them around whilst parading pictures of the happy family on his facebook page. Nice? He is making UK authorities looking like dilettantes and mocks our immigration system and laws. Children has been smuggled in the country within last few days. How this could have happened? I am trying to find out. You are saying that guardianship would allow anyone to bring children over here. All 4 by same person - guardian? Seems rather unlikely. So more likely is that few people should have been involved in these scheme. But you also contradict yourselves saying that children will not be able to stay legally in the UK. If they all have guardians, as I think you suggested, this is exactly what is going to happen. Who would stop them and how? But even if some of children go back, it is likely that they will use same method or even more sophisticated method to bring them again over here. If they could do it, then everyone could. You understand what this means. Children trafficants etc. Reporting to immigration authorities is a possibility and thank you for suggesting this option. What else could be done? You mentioned Egyptian Civil Court involvement but you also said that the papers were reviewed by British authorities as well. Which UK authorities and institutions review guardianship papers from Civil Courts for children-foreign citizens? What is the procedure? Which UK institution is notified and observes if children are properly looked after after they are brought over here? Social services? Who records where children will live after entering UK? This loophole is open gate for children's abuse and exploitation. Someone should have known what is going on. Or I am naive? Please, think outside the box.
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
I'm going to opt out to see if any other experts have anything to add
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 1 year ago.
Hello,
It seems the professional has left this conversation. This happens occasionally, and it's usually because the professional thinks that someone else might be a better match for your question. I've been working hard to find a new professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right professional can take a little longer than expected.
I wonder whether you're OK with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.
Thank you!
Nicola
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yes. I am willing to wait unless it is not too long as this is a developing case.
So, if you could define the duration of waiting I would be able to cooperate according;y.
Thank you.
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 1 year ago.
Hello,
We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you. I'm afraid JustAnswer cannot guarantee a time.
Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Nicola,
just have in mind that this is a rapidly developing story.
Thank you for your help.

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