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frantzgregory
frantzgregory, Lawyer
Category: Immigration Law
Satisfied Customers: 635
Experience:  Over 5 years dealing with EEA Law, Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Law.
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I am currently completing a set O form for settlement as my

Customer Question

Hi there,
I am currently completing a set O form for settlement as my 5 year UK ancestry visa finishes on the 30th of November and I have a priority appointment a few days before this. My husband came in with me 5 years ago (on his UK Ancestry visa stuck in his passport it says "acc to (my name)") so I have paid for him for the appointment as my dependant (even though he works and ears). Our daughter was born here 2 years ago and has a biometric card stating "type of permit: dependant leave to remain". I was told months ago that as soon as my husband and I have ILR she will be eligible for UK citizenship and so we do not need to pay for her for ILR (~3000 pounds for priority). However, now that I am going through the set O form with a fine tooth comb I do not want to appear at the appointment as if I am withholding information by not applying for ILR for her. As soon as we have ILR we intend to apply for her UK citizenship so she can legally stay in the country. Do you expect we will have any issues at the appointment with this?
Submitted: 16 days ago.
Category: Immigration Law
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

You have been ill advised. You must include your child as a dependant.

Customer: replied 15 days ago.
Are you saying I need to pay ~£3000 for her to have ILR when she will be eligible for UK citizenship that day???? It doesn't make sense!
Customer: replied 15 days ago.
Can you please send me the document that states this is the case in her circumstance. Have you ever worked on a case with a child in her particular circumstance?
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

You have been told what the rule is. You may choose what you wish to do.

Customer: replied 15 days ago.
Can you please send me the document that states this rule?
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

You are better off instructing a solicitor/lawyer to guide you through this because you are committing thousands of pounds to this application and simply paying JA $42 for this is penny wise pound foolish. In my day job as an immigration lawyer i charge £160 per hour and I have spent hours here and wouldnt commit to spending anymore particularly as this case is trivial. Had your daughter born in the UK not applied for leave then you wouldnt need to apply for her until your ILR. children born in the UK to parents on a visa are what we call in limbo state ie niether overstayers or illegal. but once you apply to regularise thier stay you take them out of limbo and into immigration control and that is why you must apply at the same time to avoid hefty costs later and tribunal appeals.

Customer: replied 15 days ago.
It still doesn't make any sense to me because as soon as my husband and I have ILR she will be eligible for UK citizenship. I don't understand why I should spend further money on a solicitor/lawyer to "guide me through this" because it is a very simple question. Similarly, I'm sure you haven't spent "hours" here. I do not appreciate you calling me "foolish" and implying that this is not worth your time as I am the one paying you! Every time I have spoken to the UK visa and immigration hotline the advisors have always agreed that I don't need to state her as a dependant as she will be eligible for UK citizenship. I have even double checked with the UK citizenship department and they also confirmed this but they always give the caveat "we can't give advice on filling in the application form". So this is why I thought I should triple check this simple question with a lawyer. Have you ever heard of others having the same issue? What will UK immigration do if we turn up to the priority appointment with just my husband stated as my dependant?
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

The law is the law whether it makes sense to you or not. "penny wise pound foolish" is a British saying. If you are about to embark on a journey to becomng British you should take some time in understanding British values and language.

Customer: replied 15 days ago.
Oh dear, I am only asking for further explanation and understanding. If you read my first question carefully, I am British by ancestry. English is also my first language and I had never previously heard that expression...possibly because I haven't encountered anyone as rude! Could you please answer my question now. Have you ever heard of others having the same issue? What will UK immigration do if we turn up to the priority appointment with just my husband stated as my dependant?
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

There is no such thing as British by ancestry. I have informed you that your child must be included in your application for ILR. You are not British in any way until you have pledged allegance to the Queen and naturalised as British.

I have also explained your child is no longer in limbo to benefit from not having a visa. It is your choice if you want to spend all that money without seeking legal advice. JA does not provide legal advice. You have been told what needs to be done. I cannot change the law to suit you. Immigration fees are expensive. You arent the only one experiencing financial difficulties many of my clients are in worse situations and i dont have to repeat myself on trivial cases like this.

If you have any serious questions to ask I will happily help but I wouldnt go over this anymore sorry.

Customer: replied 15 days ago.
My current visa is UK Ancestry. It is in the name, my Grandparents are from England. I am not asking you to change the law to suit! Anyway, whatever way you look at it, you have not answered my question appropriately.
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

ourIf your grandparents are British then at least one of your parents would be British and I am wondering why didnt you apply for British citizenship direct? Your qiestion was answered but you didnt like the answer because you are trying to avoid paying the appropriate fees. You must have decided to reqularise your childs status yourself without proper consultation and this is why you are here now. Perhaps you recieved proper condultation and didnt take it on board like on here. Anyway good look and i dont expect to be rated positively. I wish you well.

Once again to answer your original question you must include your child in your application for ILR. ILR does not grant you British citizenship neither does UK ancestry.

How could your child be eligible for British citizenship. On what basis?

Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

How could your child be eligible for British citizenship? On what basis?

Customer: replied 15 days ago.
As I stated in my original question. I have been told by UK visa and immigration that my daughter is automatically eligible for UK citizenship when my husband and I have ILR. UK visa and immigration were the ones who originally advised me that she didn't need to be on my ILR application as a dependant months ago, although today, when I spoke to them on the phone to double check, they told me they couldn't give advice. My father was born in Australia to British parents but never thought to apply for UK citizenship when he was younger. As he was born in Australia his children did not automatically have UK citizenship, but if he had been the case would be different. Now I am teaching you about this! Who is supposed to be answering the question here ?
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

You are givng me relevant information that should have been given without having to painstakingly price it out.

The second contact point from the Home Office is right that they cannot give advice. So if you have already been told by the Home Office then when you attend your appointment tell them you were advised by the Home Office and wait to hear what they say.

Your child should never have been included in the first place and thats what i have told you but because you included her she becomes subject to immigration control. It was your doing. Everyone thinks they know all about UK immigration until they get it wrong and try to blame everyone else but themselves. UK immigration have some subtle rules that people take for granted.Your child is now subject to immigration control and therefore must be included unless in the form you choose not to mention or include you have a dependent child and therefore face the wrath of the Home Office for deception.

Customer: replied 15 days ago.
I had a feeling you hadn't read my initial question carefully. I didn't take my daughters visa "in to my own hands". 2 years ago, when she was born and we wanted to go to Australia for a holiday I asked UK visa and immigration if there would be any issues at immigration when we were re-entering. They explained that I had to go through the process of the FLRO application for her to have the right to re-enter and this is where we've ended up. If we have to pay the extra for her to be a dependant so be it but I don't want to pay if I don't have to. Does that make sense?
Expert:  frantzgregory replied 15 days ago.

I read you question correctly and i deal with this type of cases regularly I understand truly and I know that the only way children are taken out of limbo is when parents choose to travel out of the UK with them. If a parent had to take their child out of the UK that child must come out of limbo and be subject to immigration control otherwise the child wont be allowed back in. If you had sought legal advice you would have been told of the consequences but the Home Office wouldnt have told you this as they cannot give legal advice.

I am afraid the consequences of travelling out with your child is the costs you have to pay now unfortunately.