How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask UK-Justice Your Own Question

UK-Justice
UK-Justice, Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 16193
Experience:  Called to the Bar in 2007
41133288
Type Your Law Question Here...
UK-Justice is online now

My husband went bankrupt on 15th November 2012. not knowing

Customer Question

My husband went bankrupt on 15th November 2012. not knowing that he would become bankrupt he sold 2 motorcycles in June 2012 and used the money to pay back part of a loan which my father gave us in December 2011. The insolvency service have written to my father and stated that the motorcyles or the proceeds of the sale should have formed part of the estate and my father has to pay them the money back. My father is an OAP and concerned that he has to find over £3,000 to pay back even though he lent the money to me and not my husband. Does my father have to pay it back and what, if any, are the penalties for not doing so or not being able to.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Alex J. replied 3 years ago.
Hi

Thank you for your question and welcome to Just Answer.

Did your husband know he was going to go bankrupt when the money was repaid?

Was there a loan agreement?

Kind regards

AJ
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


no he didn't know... had no idea. He lost a tribunal case and costs were awarded against him in the sum of £10K. He had his proprerty on the market and intendedto pay the costs award from that however he received a CCJ and was given a deadline date by which to pay the CCJ. This prompted him to go look into going bankrupt and he went bankrupt when he also received a 3Ktax demand in November. That plus the 10K plus other debts forced him to go bankrupt as he was unable to work due to disability and still is unable to work.


No, there was no formal loan agreement between myself and my father. He lent me the money and I put 3K in our joint account so that we could move to a cheaper house and area as we were going to be unable to pay the high rent in Herts. We were doing all that we could to prevent bankruptcy including moving house. The proceeds of the sale are even more than I put in the joint account and the insolvency service have made no reference to this they have asked for a sum of 3,600

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Thanks for your question, I will do whatever I can to help you. Please remember to rate my answer SMILEY FACE OR ABOVE.

Was he not served a bankruptcy petition or statutory demand?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

For UK JUSTICE ONLY

 

just a ccj and an then an order for recovery of award by 8th November 2012 and a letter from HMRC on 7th November 2012. He attended court on 15th November and received his bankruptcy on 15th November as he felt this was all too much to cope with due to his mental illness. he saw the insolvency officer in Cambridge on 28th November.

I have found the paperwork now - he received a "bankruptcy order on debtors petition" on 15th November 2012 at 09.55am. We sold the mororcycles on 10 June 2011 (one was mine). the order of recovery was made 23 October 2011, the tribunal award on 28th February 2011, the letter from HMRC was dated 7th November and the date award payable by 8th November. In addition we received a 3rd party interim order and hearing date for 10th December 2011 but this was then immediately cancelled due to my hsband being decalred bankrupt on 15th November 2011 at the same court.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

:-)

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
2011 or 2012?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

For UK JUSTICE ONLY


 


Abject apologies - fingers on wrong buttons as now using laptop... All dates should read 2012!


We sold the motorcycles on 10 June 2012 (one was mine). the order of recovery was made 23 October 2012, the tribunal award on 28th February 2012, the letter from HMRC was dated 7th November 2012 and the date award payable by 8th November 2012. In addition we received a 3rd party interim order and hearing date for 10th December 2012 but this was then immediately cancelled due to my husband having being declared bankrupt on 15th November 2012 at the same Court.


As already stated it was the combination of the date by which to pay the order, and the solicitors letter accompanying said order stating they were going to take all further action as necessary to recover without informing him of said further action and the letter from HMRC stating there was an error in the tax he had paid as the company had failed to advise that he had a company car so he had to pay an extra 3+K which made him file for bankruptcy. he was worried about baliffs and unable to coppe with any further stress so filed for bankruptcy which was then subsequently granted on 15th November 2012.


Thank you for being so observant and for taking the time to double check. I look forward to hearing your response. My father is unwilling and / or unable to make to make any payment and both he and my husband are really concerned about the matter and fear all sorts of sanctions.

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Just to be clear: When did he go bankrupt, when did he sell the bikes?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


sold the bikes 10 June 2012 - went bankrupt on 15th November 2012 at 09.55

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Then you dont need to worry.

He sold the bikes months before he went bankrupt.

The sale pre dates the bankruptcy - as such he could do with the £ whatever he wanted.

If it was that he sold the bikes AFTER he went bankrupt then this would cause a problem.

But as the sale was before he went bankrupt the OR is wrong - it does not need form part of the estate.

I hope this helps.


Please remember to click *** OK SERVICE *** or above so that I am credited for my time. The question does not close and you can ask follow ups.

Important: If you feel the need to rate as one of the lower two scores, it counts as negative feedback so please reply to me via the REPLY with any further questions you may have. I will be happy to assist you further.
UK-Justice, Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 16193
Experience: Called to the Bar in 2007
UK-Justice and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thank you SO much - was the OR just trying it on then hoping my father would cough up? I am annoyed as my father worried - he is an OAP and it is a very official letter stating he has to pay. Is there anywhere that I can show my father that this is the case - if so can you refer me to it/ I would be grateful so as to stop him worrying.

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes.

Anything that pre-dates - the OR can't do anything about..............

He is only liable for post dated things.



Please remember to click *** OK SERVICE *** or above so that I am credited for my time. The question does not close and you can ask follow ups.

Important: If you feel the need to rate as one of the lower two scores, it counts as negative feedback so please reply to me via the REPLY with any further questions you may have. I will be happy to assist you further.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

thank you... well worth the £33.00 charged.

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Welcome
Expert:  Clare replied 3 years ago.
Hi
Unfortunately the matter is not as straightforward as has been suggested.
At the time the money was given to your father your husband already knew that he was insolvent - that he could not cover his debts from his resources and accordingly the payment to your father discharged his debt to the detriment of the other creditors and the close relationship means that the Trustee in Bankruptcy can indeed sue your husband and your father for the return of the monies.
The only area where you have room for discussion is the fact that you say one of the motor cycles belonged to you - and on that basis you were entitled to use that money in any way that you wished
Claire
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

For UK JUSTICE ONLY

 

My husband did not know he was insolvent at the time he gave my father the money back. His (sole) property was on the market and the sale woud have cleared all the debts which was his intention. The issue only arose when he received the order of recovery giving him until 8th November 2013 to pay and the HMRC letter arriving at the same time. His property was still on the market but he knew that it would not be sold within the 7 days that he had been given to make payments in November 2013.he therefore filed for bankruptcy on 15th November 2013. My husband suffers from depression and anxiety and it was at this point in November that he decided to declare himself bankrupt.Does this make any sort of difference to the advice just received?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

For UK JUSTICE ONLY


On what basis is there supposition that my husband knew he was insolvent when he sold the bikes? He had to provide a breakdown of finances for the tribunal - I still have those so could we use those to give to the OR to show that he did not know he was insolvent? We only sold the bikes as neither of us could ride anymore - I had an accident and broke my collarbone in October last year and his medication does not facilitate him riding a motorbike anymore.

Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.



Both my colleagues give valuable advice. The
important factor is if at date of sale of the bikes he knew that there was a
possibility that he would lose his various claims and already owed HMRC money
and go bankrupt.

The indebtedness would have to come out of
left field which would be hard to prove



You would need to prove that your bike was
yours paid for by you in your name and that you gave the proceeds to the father
and that your husband was merely the selling agent.



Any legal problem always has several
viewpoints or nothing would ever end up in court.

 

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • Thank you so much for your help. Your answers were really useful and came back so quickly. Great! Maggie
< Previous | Next >
  • Thank you so much for your help. Your answers were really useful and came back so quickly. Great! Maggie
  • A quick response, a succinct and helpful answer in simple English. I believe I can now confront the counter party with confidence -- worth the 30 bucks! Rick
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C.
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex
  • Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult. GP
  • I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion. Justin
  • Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around. Esther
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Jo C.

    Jo C.

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    30316
    Over 5 years in practice
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/EM/emus/2015-7-7_192327_bigstockportraitofconfidentfemale.64x64.jpg Jo C.'s Avatar

    Jo C.

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    30316
    Over 5 years in practice
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BE/benjones/2015-12-1_0437_ennew.64x64.jpg Ben Jones's Avatar

    Ben Jones

    UK Lawyer

    Satisfied Customers:

    11553
    Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BU/Buachaill/2012-5-25_211156_barrister5.64x64.jpg Buachaill's Avatar

    Buachaill

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    1754
    Barrister 17 years experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/JO/jojobi/2013-3-19_0265_maxlowryphoto.64x64.jpg Max Lowry's Avatar

    Max Lowry

    Advocate

    Satisfied Customers:

    894
    LLB, 10 years post qualification experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/UK/UKLawyer/2012-4-12_9849_F2.64x64.jpg UK_Lawyer's Avatar

    UK_Lawyer

    Solicitor

    Satisfied Customers:

    750
    I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/KA/Kasare/kasare.64x64.jpg Kasare's Avatar

    Kasare

    Solicitor

    Satisfied Customers:

    402
    Solicitor, 10 yrs plus experience in civil litigation, employment and family law
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/OS/osh/2015-7-7_19268_gettyimagesb.64x64.jpg Joshua's Avatar

    Joshua

    Lawyer

    Satisfied Customers:

    8199
    LL.B (Hons), Higher Prof. Dip. Law & Practice