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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 44379
Experience:  Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
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On the 13th December I was fired from my part time job as my

Customer Question

On the 13th December I was fired from my part time job as my local rugby club's replacement Bar Steward/Manager.
I wrote to the club on the 26th December in relation to the termination of my employment and asked the club committee to consider the following points:

Firstly, I was not presented with a contract of service inc. terms and conditions of employment and job description at the start of my employment.

Secondly, I did not receive any verbal or written warnings that my work was not up to standard and therefore my dismissal failed to follow the ACAS Code of Practice Disciplinary & Grievance Procedures.

Thirdly, having my contract verbally ended, I have not received the required letter per employment legislation advising me of the termination of my employment and the reasons why it as terminated.

The verbal reasons for my dismissal (i.e. we can afford to lose you but not the girls) in my opinion is insufficient grounds for summary dismissal from my employment and after careful consideration I am considering taking legal advice in relation to being dismissed from my employment.

Before and without prejudice to any further action I may consider I would like Gala RFC to advise me in writing as to why the points I have raised above weren’t adhered to and to supply me with a full explanation as to why my employment has been terminated.

The club have replied to my request and supplied the following:

7 February 2013
Re : Executive Committee Response to Letter Dated 26 December 2012
The Executive Committee met at the monthly meeting on Tuesday 29th January 2013, at which point
all relevant personnel considered your letter, together with the information put forward by Lynda
Stoddart re her meeting with you, and information put forward from professional advisors.
At the meeting at which you were dismissed, George Marshall offered you the opportunity to resign,
which you declined. The club was left with no option but to remove you from your paid position of
employment within Gala RFC. You have been paid your notice period and any holiday entitlement in
conclusion to this decision.
As discussed, the reasons for concern over your employment, which are still upheld, and for which
you were dismissed are as follows:
1. You were asked on two occasions by Mike Bihel to remain in the club during an organised
event until closure. As the main licence holder, it is feasible to leave early if you feel there
are no identified risks. If you make the decision to leave the premises whilst you are the
key licence holder, you must ensure that you are available to return to the club, if
required. It is believed that on one occasion you left to ensure bar staff received their
appropriate hours which is appreciated. However on at least one occasion, although you
were still the recognised licence holder, you left the function early and you frequented
another public bar where you consumed alcohol rendering you unfit to return to
Netherdale should it be required. This is viewed as gross misconduct.
2. The bar staff have vocalised to George MarsXXXXX, XXXXX Bihel and Scott Dalgleish that they
were unhappy to continue working with you, and stated on Saturday 8th December that
they would not be happy to continue covering shifts if you were in charge of the bar they
were working in.
Taking these two primary factors into consideration, and in conversation with the Bars Manager, the
senior team were left with no alternative but to ask you to step down from your position of
employment with Gala RFC, to ensure the safe and continued running of the bar over the busy
Christmas period.
It is regrettable that the team were forced into making this decision as they believed in your abilities
at the onset, and offered you the role in good faith.
As an avid supporter of the Gala 1XV, the Committee hope that you see fit to continue attending
home games, and continue as a member of the club.
Should you wish to meet with George Marshall and or Scott Dalgleish to discuss further, please
contact me to arrange a suitable date and time.
Yours sincerely
Duncan Scott
Joint Honorary Secretary for Gala RFC

I am certain they haven't followed proper end of employment procedures and consider that I have now been unfairly dismissed based on their reply, futhermore it appears now that their reply indicates that I am being victimised as the girls wouldn't work with me.

Are there any grounds for taking this further?

I had offered to be the bar manager for the next 5 years and would have earned approximately £3,500 per year.

It is my reputation I am annoyed about and the way I was treated, the reply was only received after 45 days.

I have more information if you wish to know more?
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
Hello, my name is XXXXX XXXXX it is my pleasure to be able to assist with your question today. Please clarify any specific queries you have in relation to this?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

1/ Is it gross misconduct? I dod not steal etc


2/ Have I any grounds to claim compensation as I have lost potential income of £3,500 for 5 years and at this time of austerity it is a fair some of money?


3/ Have i been victimised the girls always worked with me to the end of the night the current bar manager finished around 7pm, to my knowledge I did nothing to get them to club against me and think the statements about "losing the girls" is the bar managers words and not theirs?

4/ I am in work partially retired and have a smalll pension, can or could I get legal aid?


5/ Have I got grounds for an appeal and should I take my case to the employment tribunal, which I have to appeal to by 13th March?

Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
It appears that your employer has dismissed you on grounds of misconduct. Misconduct is a common reason for taking disciplinary action and it is also a potentially fair reason for dismissal under the Employment Rights Act 1996. It could be a single act of serious misconduct or a series of less serious acts over a period of time.

In order to justify that dismissal on grounds of misconduct was fair, the law requires that the employer:
• Carries out a reasonable investigation;
• Follows a fair disciplinary procedure;
• Has reasonable grounds for believing the employee was guilty; and
• Show that dismissal was a reasonable decision that a reasonable employer would have taken in the circumstances.

I will deal with these requirements in more detail:

1. Investigation - what is a reasonable investigation depends on the case and what resources are available to the employer. However, an employer is only expected to go as far as is reasonably practicable in the circumstances and they would not be expected to conduct a forensically detailed investigation.

2. Disciplinary hearing - if the investigation produces evidence that misconduct may have occurred then the employee should be invited to attend a formal disciplinary hearing. They must be given prior notice of the hearing, including details of the allegations and any evidence to be used against them. They have the statutory right to be accompanied at the hearing but only by a trade union representative or a colleague. At the disciplinary hearing the employee must be given the opportunity to defend the allegations.

3. Decision - if, as a result of the investigation and the disciplinary hearing, the employer holds a genuine belief that the employee was guilty, they can go ahead and dismiss. When deciding on whether to dismiss, the employer should consider the employee's length of service and disciplinary record. Therefore, longer service and a clean disciplinary record should result in the employer giving more thought into deciding what action to take.

4. Penalty - unless the offence in question amounts to gross misconduct (i.e. something so serious to justify instant dismissal), the ACAS Code of Practice recommends that the employee should be issued with a warning first. If any further misconduct occurs in the future, only then should dismissal be considered.

In summary, an employer is not expected to prove that the alleged misconduct had definitely occurred. A dismissal can be fair if the employer can meet the above requirements.

If there are any doubts or evidence that the above requirements have not been satisfied, an appeal can be submitted to the employer straight after the disciplinary outcome is communicated. If the appeal is rejected a claim for unfair dismissal can be made in the employment tribunal. The time limit to claim is 3 months from the date of dismissal and the claimant needs to have at least a year's continuous service with that employer.

You will not get legal aid fir a tribunal claim as that is not available there. You can check to see if you have legal protection cover with any car or household insurance as that could help you instead.

Please take a second to leave a positive rating as that is a very important part of our process. Your question will not close and I can continue providing further advice if necessary. Thank you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

For Ben Jones only,



1/ There was no investigation, I started work on Thursday 13th December at 6pm, I was casually advised by the Bar Manager (BM) that we were meeting with the Exec i.e, the President (P) and Vice President (VP) of the Rugby Club later. At 7pm he disappeared and they met.


I was behind the bar and the P & VP came up to the counter, the BM appeared back behind me in the bar.


Here is a summary of what was said on the night as I wrote it down that night.


P - Well how are things going?


Me - I am learning a lot of thngs from the BM but still have a lt to learn about what happens at the club.


P - How many were working behind the bar last Saturday?


Me - I replied 5. (no other questions about that Saturday)


P - What about the night the gas went off?


Me - All the staff have been trained to do the duties of a bar person, I expected everybody to be able to do all the duties including changing a gas cylinder.


BM - piped up, there just we lassies!


P - We can afford to lose you but not the lassies (a statement i had heard from the BM before.


Me - I said along the lines you can move with the times or stick with the old.


P - We want you to resign


Me - I have no intentions of resigning


P - Well, whats the next steps then?


Me - Jokingly I said you could fire me


P - Well your fired then! he offered me his hand, which I shook and he said "I hope this doesn't affect the things you do for the club and the committee!


Me - replying as I walked out of club, well I need to think about that.


With regards XXXXX XXXXX points above, there was no investigation, there were no grounds for instant dismissal, so I don't think the above requirements were satisfied.


As this has left a sour taste in my mouth, I have no intentions of returning to the club to work.


Question, can I appeal direct to the tribunal and miss out appealing to the club?

Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
if you believe that an appeal will be pointless and to be honest you may be too late to appeal now anyway, then you can go direct for the ttribunal

As your original question has been answered I would be grateful if you could please quickly rate my answer - it only takes a second to do. I can then continue providing further advice and answer follow up questions if needed. Thank you.
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 44379
Experience: Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
Ben Jones and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

For Ben Jones only,


Ben they only advised me of the reasons in writing on the 7th February, nearly 2 months since it happened.

Final question i.e. your honest opinion, is it worth it taking them to a tribunal based on their actions or should I say inactions. Mainly in your opinion % chance of winning appeal?


Thanks for all your advice.




Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
Unfortunately we are not allowed to give you prospects of success as we do not have enough details of your case and have not considered all evidence. That is something tat only a formally instructed solicitor can give you, sorry
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thanks Ben

Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
My pleasure and all the best

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