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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69364
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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Hi there, My partner and I have recently sold a car privately.

Customer Question

Hi there,

My partner and I have recently sold a car privately. We initially had the car listing on ebay which then expired. A buyer saw the listing through Ebay initially but as the listing had expired asked us what issues there were that we knew of with the car. On December 18th 2012 Qwik fit failed the car on two accounts, which the buyer was informed about. I did have a second MOT at another station, two weeks after(03/01/2013) merely to confirm it was a failure. I genuinely didn't read the second MOT certificate. Whilst I acknowledged that it had again failed as the guy told me, I asked if the same things had come up and the guy at the station said that it they had and they came up with a couple of other things, but he did state that an MOT report could be entirely different if I did it again. Through being very busy and in the process of preparing a move a lost the certificate and didnt see it again.

As we only had the MOT results from the first test, I presumed that very little could change in such a short space of time as the car was based on the drive. I had no way of establishing what was on the second MOT certificate, so on the ebay advert merely stated what I could from the MOT on the 18th.

As it had been indicated that MOT results could fluctuate, I put down the differences to the 2nd MOT on the 3rd of Jan merely down that. I was aware that aditional work had come up but I could not specify what it was and so advised the condition of the car based on the information that I could actually provide in the EBAY advert.

However, the buyer did not purchase through ebay, the listing had expired and they actually came to view the car, inspecting and test driving to decide if they were happy.

Whilst sat in the car with the buyer I also told her that additional things could come up if she put it through another MOT based on the fact I had been told MOT results could vary. I told her that we did have a 2nd MOT within two weeks of the results we can provide her and I remember that additional fails had come up although I couldn't specify what it was. I also advised that whilst I didnt know how to do it it, I believed that she could actually somehow use the documents online to confirm MOT history. She said that she didnt mind spending some money to get it on the road as we were so good to sell it cheap. We sold it for £750(when the car(MOT'd and roadworthy) is valued at around £1745). Even we buy any car offered approx £550 for the vehicle which the buyer even confirmed. They were aware that we offered a great deal taking into consideration that the car needed work.

On the initial ebay advert we also stated work that we had believed to be done a year ago by a companies local MOT garage. It materialized that it was a trader, who worked for a company sold the car to us on a trader forecourt leading us to believe this was the case. However, the car was sold to us with dodgy breaks, and after being in an accident the individual agreed to complete the necessary work to get the job complete. We were told that over £1000 had been spent on the car to put it in a perfect condition and we received a receipt for the work that had been done although we did not have to pay for it.

The couple are now claiming(even though none of this work came up on the DEC Mot) that the latter MOT's reflect that we are committing fraud and that the MOT's reflect we are not telling the truth. They say the work was never done and we said it had in the advert. We genuinely believed it had been carried out and my partners mother was there when we were verbally told this.

Now they are suggesting we have knowingly committed fraud on three accounts and that we should refund the £750 paid for the car even though we explained that it would be sold as seen as the advert had expired and they were inspecting first.(test drive to).

I would also like to add that the husband(of the actual owner) and his father aggressively turned up the next day after buying, walking into our shared house and demanding a refund.

I would also like to add they claimed we let the owner drive the car away from our house on purchasing and yet the husband and his father drove back in the car, after realizing it had failed the MOT demanding this refund.

They also viewed the car in the dark.

Pretty please can you tell me where I stand as they are accusing me of fraud and threatening to go to the police although I feel my partner and I have done nothing wrong.

Thank you

Timothy Hudson
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Hi

Would you mind summarising your question? I cannot see it all as I think it exceeds the word limit?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

FOR JOMO1972



Hi there,

My partner and I have recently sold a car privately. We initially had the car listing on ebay which then expired. A buyer saw the listing through Ebay initially but as the listing had expired asked us what issues there were that we knew of with the car. On December 18th 2012 Qwik fit failed the car on two accounts, which the buyer was informed about. I did have a second MOT at another station, two weeks after(03/01/2013) merely to confirm it was a failure. I genuinely didn't read the second MOT certificate. Whilst I acknowledged that it had again failed as the guy told me, I asked if the same things had come up and the guy at the station said that it they had and they came up with a couple of other things, but he did state that an MOT report could be entirely different if I did it again. Through being very busy and in the process of preparing a move a lost the certificate and didnt see it again.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Ok. So there were two mots.

What does the buyer say about that?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

FOR JOMO1972


 


Hi again,


 


Im going to wait until im at work tomorrow to send the whole thing to you merely due to tech issues! I look forward to your help then,


 


Thank you!

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Ok. I'll be on later.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

As we only had the MOT results from the first test, I presumed that very little could change in such a short space of time as the car was based on the drive. I had no way of establishing what was on the second MOT certificate, so on the ebay advert merely stated what I could from the MOT on the 18th.

As it had been indicated that MOT results could fluctuate, I put down the differences to the 2nd MOT on the 3rd of Jan merely down that. I was aware that aditional work had come up but I could not specify what it was and so advised the condition of the car based on the information that I could actually provide in the EBAY advert.

However, the buyer did not purchase through ebay, the listing had expired and they actually came to view the car, inspecting and test driving to decide if they were happy.

Whilst sat in the car with the buyer I also told her that additional things could come up if she put it through another MOT based on the fact I had been told MOT results could vary. I told her that we did have a 2nd MOT within two weeks of the results we can provide her and I remember that additional fails had come up although I couldn't specify what it was. I also advised that whilst I didnt know how to do it it, I believed that she could actually somehow use the documents online to confirm MOT history. She said that she didnt mind spending some money to get it on the road as we were so good to sell it cheap. We sold it for £750(when the car(MOT'd and roadworthy) is valued at around £1745). Even we buy any car offered approx £550 for the vehicle which the buyer even confirmed. They were aware that we offered a great deal taking into consideration that the car needed work.

On the initial ebay advert we also stated work that we had believed to be done a year ago by a companies local MOT garage. It materialized that it was a trader, who worked for a company sold the car to us on a trader forecourt leading us to believe this was the case. However, the car was sold to us with dodgy breaks, and after being in an accident the individual agreed to complete the necessary work to get the job complete. We were told that over £1000 had been spent on the car to put it in a perfect condition and we received a receipt for the work that had been done although we did not have to pay for it.


 


The couple are now claiming(even though none of this work came up on the DEC Mot) that the latter MOT's reflect that we are committing fraud and that the MOT's reflect we are not telling the truth. They say the work was never done and we said it had in the advert. We genuinely believed it had been carried out and my partners mother was there when we were verbally told this.

Now they are suggesting we have knowingly committed fraud on three accounts and that we should refund the £750 paid for the car even though we explained that it would be sold as seen as the advert had expired and they were inspecting first.(test drive to).

I would also like to add that the husband(of the actual owner) and his father aggressively turned up the next day after buying, walking into our shared house and demanding a refund.

I would also like to add they claimed we let the owner drive the car away from our house on purchasing and yet the husband and his father drove back in the car, after realizing it had failed the MOT demanding this refund.

They also viewed the car in the dark.

Pretty please can you tell me where I stand as they are accusing me of fraud and threatening to go to the police although I feel my partner and I have done nothing wrong.

Thank you

Timothy Hudson

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Ok. Thanks for all this but I really need to narrow this down into relevant facts so that we can sort out whats important.

Would it be possible to just tell me in one or two sentences what is the basis of their complaint as I'm really not sure at the moment. Please do not put yourself to detail. Brevity would be really helpful so that I can understand.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thank you for the reply, they are accusing me of fraud, and telling me that they do not believe we were unaware the car needed so much work, they say we should be responsible for the work that needs to be done.


 


They also said that my fraud paut them in a dangerous car.


how should i tackle the allegation..


 


 


thank you


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Ok. Well, its not fraud.

Did you tell them all of the failure points upon both MOTs ? Just yes or no is fine.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

No

 

I didnt know what what was on the second one(lost the MOT certificate)

 

So just went by the failure points on the first, I did tell them on viewing the car that there had been a second MOT and I didn't know what it failed on but presumed it could be the same.

 

Have they committed slander against me?

 

Thank you

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
No. They do have a claim but its not fraud.

I'm afraid they do have a claim against you in misrepresentation. They asked about the condition of the car and you did not give them full and complete information. They do very definitely have a claim in misrepresentation,

This doesn't amount to fraud though.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thank you,


 


I feel that I could not give the full and complete information, and in person I did tell them that(whilst I was unsure how to do it) I think they could check the full MOT History online. They were still willing to purchase as we sold a car at less than half road worthy value.


 


They said they have a quote for £550 for the car, so if I offer them £200 in full and final settlement, would that be a fair result as they can get their money back if they want it


 


Thank you

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
No, they have a claim against you for the sum they paid you for the car.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

They have said in writing they will accept £235 in settlement as this allows them to retrieve their costs. If I agree to pay this and they accept the offer in writing, can they change their mind or will that be case closed?


 


 


Thank you very much

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
If you want to accept that offer then make a cheque out to him with a covering letter saying this sum is in full and final settlement.

Write full and final settlement on both sides of the cheque and take photographs of both sides.

Then if he cashes it its game over really.

Delighted to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69364
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

i am a little concerned that if i offer to do this they may then back of tge settlement agreement as they may see that as weekness.


 


if they agree in writing that my offer is accepted in writing could they do this


 


thank you

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
If they cash a full and final settlement cheque then that brings an end to the claim.

Anyway you would be able to prove that they made that offer originally and since you paid the exact sum they demanded they would struggle to argue that you hadn't complied.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Here is the letter that I sent to them in reply, They originally made the offer and I have accepted in this letter. Is this letter ok do you think?

Thank you

Dear Bev,

I have noted your comments and agree, this situation could escalate for us all unnecessarily,


I wish to make it perfectly clear, that at no time have Brook or I set out to mislead you.

None the less, you are obviously disappointed. I have considered your options and think the best way forward will be for us to give you the £235 In full and final settlement.

I get paid on the 28th of this month and I will organize a cheque in the sum of £235 in settlement of the dispute over the vehicle(MGTF registration WF52 UPK). In order for me to be able to do that could you please confirm your full name;

Mrs Beverley Ann Orchard-Leigh;


Your postal address;


4 Kipling Road

Eastleigh

Hampshire
SO50 5ST


We really are upset that you have been so disappointed, and hope we can bring this sad affair to an end.

Kind regards

Tim and Brook
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
No, don't send that. Don't get involved in comment.

Just say that you enclose a cheque in full and final settlement on a no admissions basis.

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