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Stuart J
Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 22387
Experience:  PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street Practice
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I bought a used Porsche sat nav to upgrade my Porsche car,

Customer Question

I bought a used Porsche sat nav to upgrade my Porsche car, I took theis to a company called XXXXXX for expert fitting. They condemned the unit as faulty. I bought another Porsche sat nav and took it to XXXXXXXfor expert fitting. After fitting the sat nav did not work, it shows a map but the map fails to update as the car is driven. Again XXXXXX condemned the unit as faulty. I agreed to buy a new Porsche sat nav from XXXXXX and trade in one of the faulty units, price was £2170.00 + traded part approx £830 total value £3000, I was asked to pay up front and I used a company cheque as my credit card had been stopped after suspicious activity. The invoice says simply "replacement PCM special order part". After installation the sat nav had the same fault as the second unit, shows map but no updates as car is driven. XXXXXX now say no refunds as this is a special order part? I have been through trading standards. XXXXXX now say the 2 used unit installations and the new unit were ordered by different people, that they never provided any advice or diagnostics and that they did not install the third unit it was supplied for me to DIY. I am now at small claims court. XXXXXX have filed a defence and counterclaim, they are claiming £3021.30 for loss of earnings and administration costs so far (yet supply no proof) and a further £1000.00 for closing the business for 1 day to attend court (again no proof of costs). Do I need to be concerned about their counterclaim or will a judge reject these "losses".

Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.
Have they filed in the small claims court also?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I filed, they have now submitted a defence and counterclaim

Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.

3rd unit?

Who did that?

Is it now working?

What was the fault?

What are you claiming?


Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I bought 2 second hand units and took them for expert installation, both were condemned as faulty. I then ordered a third brand new unit and used one of the condemned faulty units as a part exchange. XXXXXX supplied and installed this but could not get it to work, they returned the car with the unit not working but claim it is a special order part, no returns no refunds. There defence now says they believed I was two customers, one with the second hand units and one ordering the new unit and point to the payment method as their proof. They now say they were not asked for advice or recommendations and that I refused their offer to diagnose the issue? the thing that concerns me, and my question is - can they counterclaim for £4000 in lost income defending my claim?

Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.

They can counterclaim what they like, whether they get it is another issue.

What have you claimed?

Is it now working?

Who finally sorted it?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I have claimed for the price paid £2170 and an estimated value for the traded in part £830


It is not working. Porsche main dealer took less than 2 minutes to advise that the car is incompatible with the sat nav unit


It is not sorted, I have the sat nav in a box waiting for the court outcome


Porschtek Ltd have supplied no proof of the time they spent defending this they just supply a figure of £3000. in addition they supply no proof or explanation about closing the business for a day, just a price of £1000

Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.

Thank you.

They cannot be responsible for trying to fit the two
units which were defective if they were indeed defective BUT. It appears that they
may not have been defective, but were simply incompatible. They purport to be
Porsche specialists but clearly lacking in some areas. The fact that that the
Porsche dealership resolve the problem in minutes points to that.

Nonetheless, in my opinion, under the Supply of Goods and
Services Act. They are under a statutory duty to carry out the task with
reasonable care and skill. They seem to have failed to exercise the necessary
skill (unlike the dealership) as they didnt say that the units were incompatible. As a result of their breach of statutory duty,
you have suffered loss.

Unless this is a tiny organisation with few or no employees
which seems unlikely that they have closed the business for a day
to attend court. I cannot believe that they would have two customers both
trying to get the satnav fitted in their car with the same problem at the same
time, of all the things that they will ever deal with regard to Porsche. I
think their argument that they thought you were to different customers is
spurious. Of course, it would be for a judge to decide.

There are some maths to be worked out but the upshot is
that you have spent thousands of pounds with them and buying all the parts from
elsewhere based upon their misrepresentation that the unit was faulty. Okay,
you may have some units hanging around you didn't want them unless they were
going to work. So, assuming that you have a reasonable claim it comes down to
the judge deciding whether they have breached their duty and what that breach
is worth. Of course, I can only answer based upon the facts in front of me
based upon those facts, I do not think that they have a good defence by any
stretch of even a very vivid imagination.

With regard to their counterclaim, they are clearly
trying to frighten you into dropping your claim. This is under £5000 and they
are not entitled to their time cost for dealing with the matter up till now,
because they are not solicitors and the general rule is that unless you have
been completely unreasonable, they will not recover their costs. Their costs,
even if they were recoverable as they would be if this was not small claims is
only chargeable at £18 per hour at any rate. As I said earlier, however, this
is small claims court and they cannot charge that time in most cases. You will
have to do raise it with the judge, of course, and it is the judge's decision.
But that is what generally happens. For them to get any costs in any event your
claim must fail so they have to overcome that hurdle.

They are only entitled to "expenses" for attending court.
Those expenses can include time off work or away from a business, but they
would have to prove an actual loss of £1000 worth of labour for the day. In any
event, even if they win, it is most unlikely that the judge would award such an
inflated figure and, in my opinion, because they have inflated it, he is more
likely to disallow it altogether. He might look at couple of hundred pounds or
put them to strict proof as the cancellations of work during the day. They are
in a very specialist market and therefore the customers that come to them will
have very little option of going anywhere else. They may not therefore have
lost any work at all, but simply rearranged it for all the days.

At the end of the day, it would be up to the judge to
decide who wins or loses, and whether he allow was any or all of the
counterclaim if you lose and they win

Can I help further?

Please bear with me today because I will be online and

Please don't forget to positively rate my answer service (even if it was not
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get paid at all for my time and answer.

The thread remains open.

Thank you.

Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 22387
Experience: PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street Practice
Stuart J and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hi, Thanks for the reply, it is very concise and explains a lot I was unaware of re expenses claims in small claims court.


I feel a lot happier now to proceed and have my day in court, thanks.

Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.

few rules for when you are in court. They will stand you in good stead.

the judge likes you and dislikes the other guy you are already on the right

the judge is looking down at papers let him finish reading them and look up before
saying anything. Don't give a commentary on what he is reading.

the judge Sir of a man or Madam or Ma'am if a woman. You may feel uncomfortable
with it, but that is the protocol.

look angry. And very faint smile, the faintest you can get looks good because
it makes you look reasonable.


sure that the judge has all the papers to hand and don't produce anything on
the day you are not already supplied to the judge and the defendant

hope it goes well for you

to nag, but please don't forget to positively rate

my answer service.

I will follow up any further points you raise for free.

If you don't rate it positively, then the site keep your deposit and I get 0

for my time.

It is imperative that you give my answer a positive rating.

Some users don't bother, which means that I spend my time for nothing.

It doesn't give me "a pat on the head", "good boy" (like
ebay), it is my


Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Many thanks, XXXXX XXXXX rated you as excellent service so you can get paid

Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.

Thank you.

If ever you want me again. Put my name in 1st line of the question and other experts will tell me that you are waiting. Good luck.


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