I bought a used Porsche sat nav to upgrade my Porsche car, I took theis to a company called XXXXXX for expert fitting. They condemned the unit as faulty. I bought another Porsche sat nav and took it to XXXXXXXfor expert fitting. After fitting the sat nav did not work, it shows a map but the map fails to update as the car is driven. Again XXXXXX condemned the unit as faulty. I agreed to buy a new Porsche sat nav from XXXXXX and trade in one of the faulty units, price was £2170.00 + traded part approx £830 total value £3000, I was asked to pay up front and I used a company cheque as my credit card had been stopped after suspicious activity. The invoice says simply "replacement PCM special order part". After installation the sat nav had the same fault as the second unit, shows map but no updates as car is driven. XXXXXX now say no refunds as this is a special order part? I have been through trading standards. XXXXXX now say the 2 used unit installations and the new unit were ordered by different people, that they never provided any advice or diagnostics and that they did not install the third unit it was supplied for me to DIY. I am now at small claims court. XXXXXX have filed a defence and counterclaim, they are claiming £3021.30 for loss of earnings and administration costs so far (yet supply no proof) and a further £1000.00 for closing the business for 1 day to attend court (again no proof of costs). Do I need to be concerned about their counterclaim or will a judge reject these "losses".
I filed, they have now submitted a defence and counterclaim
Who did that?
Is it now working?
What was the fault?
What are you claiming?
I bought 2 second hand units and took them for expert installation, both were condemned as faulty. I then ordered a third brand new unit and used one of the condemned faulty units as a part exchange. XXXXXX supplied and installed this but could not get it to work, they returned the car with the unit not working but claim it is a special order part, no returns no refunds. There defence now says they believed I was two customers, one with the second hand units and one ordering the new unit and point to the payment method as their proof. They now say they were not asked for advice or recommendations and that I refused their offer to diagnose the issue? the thing that concerns me, and my question is - can they counterclaim for £4000 in lost income defending my claim?
They can counterclaim what they like, whether they get it is another issue.
What have you claimed?
Who finally sorted it?
I have claimed for the price paid £2170 and an estimated value for the traded in part £830
It is not working. Porsche main dealer took less than 2 minutes to advise that the car is incompatible with the sat nav unit
It is not sorted, I have the sat nav in a box waiting for the court outcome
Porschtek Ltd have supplied no proof of the time they spent defending this they just supply a figure of £3000. in addition they supply no proof or explanation about closing the business for a day, just a price of £1000
They cannot be responsible for trying to fit the twounits which were defective if they were indeed defective BUT. It appears that theymay not have been defective, but were simply incompatible. They purport to bePorsche specialists but clearly lacking in some areas. The fact that that thePorsche dealership resolve the problem in minutes points to that.
Nonetheless, in my opinion, under the Supply of Goods andServices Act. They are under a statutory duty to carry out the task withreasonable care and skill. They seem to have failed to exercise the necessaryskill (unlike the dealership) as they didnt say that the units were incompatible. As a result of their breach of statutory duty,you have suffered loss.
Unless this is a tiny organisation with few or no employeeswhich seems unlikely that they have closed the business for a dayto attend court. I cannot believe that they would have two customers bothtrying to get the satnav fitted in their car with the same problem at the sametime, of all the things that they will ever deal with regard to Porsche. Ithink their argument that they thought you were to different customers isspurious. Of course, it would be for a judge to decide.
There are some maths to be worked out but the upshot isthat you have spent thousands of pounds with them and buying all the parts fromelsewhere based upon their misrepresentation that the unit was faulty. Okay,you may have some units hanging around you didn't want them unless they weregoing to work. So, assuming that you have a reasonable claim it comes down tothe judge deciding whether they have breached their duty and what that breachis worth. Of course, I can only answer based upon the facts in front of mebased upon those facts, I do not think that they have a good defence by anystretch of even a very vivid imagination.
With regard to their counterclaim, they are clearlytrying to frighten you into dropping your claim. This is under £5000 and theyare not entitled to their time cost for dealing with the matter up till now,because they are not solicitors and the general rule is that unless you havebeen completely unreasonable, they will not recover their costs. Their costs,even if they were recoverable as they would be if this was not small claims isonly chargeable at £18 per hour at any rate. As I said earlier, however, thisis small claims court and they cannot charge that time in most cases. You willhave to do raise it with the judge, of course, and it is the judge's decision.But that is what generally happens. For them to get any costs in any event yourclaim must fail so they have to overcome that hurdle.
They are only entitled to "expenses" for attending court.Those expenses can include time off work or away from a business, but theywould have to prove an actual loss of £1000 worth of labour for the day. In anyevent, even if they win, it is most unlikely that the judge would award such aninflated figure and, in my opinion, because they have inflated it, he is morelikely to disallow it altogether. He might look at couple of hundred pounds orput them to strict proof as the cancellations of work during the day. They arein a very specialist market and therefore the customers that come to them willhave very little option of going anywhere else. They may not therefore havelost any work at all, but simply rearranged it for all the days.
At the end of the day, it would be up to the judge todecide who wins or loses, and whether he allow was any or all of thecounterclaim if you lose and they win
Can I help further?
Please bear with me today because I will be online andoff-line.Please don't forget to positively rate my answer service (even if it was notwhat you wanted to hear) and I will follow up any further points you raise forfree.If you don't rate it positively, then the site keep your deposit and I get 0for my time. It is imperative that you give my answer a positive rating. Itdoesn't give me "a pat on the head", "good boy" (like ebay), it is mylivelihood!If in ratings you feel that you expected more or it only helped a little,please ask me for further info before rating me negatively otherwise I don'tget paid at all for my time and answer. The thread remains open.Thank you.
Hi, Thanks for the reply, it is very concise and explains a lot I was unaware of re expenses claims in small claims court.
I feel a lot happier now to proceed and have my day in court, thanks.
Afew rules for when you are in court. They will stand you in good stead.
Ifthe judge likes you and dislikes the other guy you are already on the rightfoot
Ifthe judge is looking down at papers let him finish reading them and look up beforesaying anything. Don't give a commentary on what he is reading.
Callthe judge Sir of a man or Madam or Ma'am if a woman. You may feel uncomfortablewith it, but that is the protocol.
Don'tlook angry. And very faint smile, the faintest you can get looks good becauseit makes you look reasonable.
Makesure that the judge has all the papers to hand and don't produce anything onthe day you are not already supplied to the judge and the defendant
Ihope it goes well for you
Sorryto nag, but please don't forget to positively ratemy answer service.I will follow up any further points you raise for free.If you don't rate it positively, then the site keep your deposit and I get 0for my time. It is imperative that you give my answer a positive rating. Some users don't bother, which means that I spend my time for nothing.It doesn't give me "a pat on the head", "good boy" (likeebay), it is mylivelihood!
Many thanks, XXXXX XXXXX rated you as excellent service so you can get paid
If ever you want me again. Put my name in 1st line of the question and other experts will tell me that you are waiting. Good luck.