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UK-Justice
UK-Justice, Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 16193
Experience:  Called to the Bar in 2007
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local council have blocked my application for me to sell alcohol

Customer Question

local council have blocked my application for me to sell alcohol on markets even tho i have got a premises licence, can i appeal
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Thanks for your question, I will do whatever I can to help you. Please remember to rate my answer SMILEY FACE OR ABOVE.

On what basis?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


hi, i fell out with the deputy town clerk over several issues, one of them being the council would not support my application after istly giving it me in princpal, i got my premises licence, but behind my back they had a council meeting, by a unanimous decision they felt it would be inappropiate to sell acohol on its markets, even tho police, etc etc, had not blocked it, i also sell alcohol on other markets

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes you can appeal.

You can appeal to the magistrates court

They will hear your appeal and hear from the council

The court will then decide whether you should have the licence

So yes, you can appeal to the court but you have a limited time in which to do this.

So yes you can appeal to the magistrates court

I hope this helps





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UK-Justice, Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 16193
Experience: Called to the Bar in 2007
UK-Justice and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o ok even tho i have the premises licence, that seems harsh and expensive for a hearing ,town clerk said i can appeal , does that mean to him also

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes, you notify the clerk you want to appeal to start the process..............



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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

HI ok, i will do that, can you tell me what words to write please

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
All you need to write is something like


Dear Sirs

Re the decision to refuse a Licence dated xxxxx I wish to formally appeal the decision

Yours faithfully


That's it!


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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ok, how long before the hearing would happen?is there anyway u could represent me, by way of telling me what to say or expect via say e-mail or phone, as for you to go there and do your magic, will cost me a fortune

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I can't represent - against site rules

Appeal would be about 2 months or so......




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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o ok not sure why you thought that was your job, i think ive a lot going in my favour, i do it at aother sites, ive got the licence already,they never invited me over to the meeting so that i could of taken any questions,which i think is quite wrong , and they agreed it in principal in the ist place, what costs am i looking at, do i need legal help on the day?

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
You should get a solicitor yes to present your argument in court

This gives you the best chance

I hope this helps





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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ok will a normal solicitor be able to do the court work, how much would the cost be approx, also how much for the court costs for the day do i have to pay all costs if i lose

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes they would.

I think about £1000 all in all.

If you lose you may have to pay costs of the Council...............



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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


god, how much worst case serino

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Well their costs are likely to be less than £500



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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

o god what a nitemare, i wish i had yr brains so i could take them on in court , do i have to pay for the panel expenses, hire of court, etc etc

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Welcome.

Dont forget to give my answer a good rating - thanks.


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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

u never answered, what other costs am i liable for

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I did.

I said £500.




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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


thats it, just their costs nothing extra on top of that

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Thats right.







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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o ok, is it like a normal court room, or is it held in a formal room , with us sat round a table

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Normal court room. Magistrates, someone from council and you.




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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


not to bad then , ive been to a licenseing hearing when i had one ojection, is it similar or is it worse


 

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Great.

Please remember to give my answer a good rating - thanks.



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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


u never really answered u put great ,,

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Can you clarify what your further question is for me?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


is it similar to a licensing hearing, with us sat there asking questions back and forth, in front of a panel, or it is much more formal than that, ie i go in a suit, u have to stand up and much more like a court hearing or is it a lot more relaxed

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
No.

As I said above, it is a formal Court hearing.

There will be 3 Magistrates or a single Judge, a legal adviser, someone from the Council and you.

You will go first and then the Council.

The Court will then decide.

I hope this clarifies.




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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

not too bad then, guess anybody from the public can show up also, what about licensing is there anybody from there who would attend, how long would the hearing normally last,

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes anyone can show up.

Yes someone from the Council and licencing is likely to attend.

The hearing will last no more than 2 hours.



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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


god it sounds very intimadating, i will be very nervous about attending, so the worst i could do is lose the licence, my costs plus their costs on top, can i appeal after that

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
You could appeal to the Crown Court yes.






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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

o right but then the costs for that will be huge surely

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes probably around £2500 if you lose.





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Customer: replied 3 years ago.


omg, ok do they give you time to pay

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Generally it is payable within 28 days and can then be enforced................
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


blimely not long then, what happens if the other side dont show up

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Your appeal against refusal will be granted.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o great but unlikely i guess that they will not show, would it be a councillor normally they would send

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
No - it would be someone from the legal team and licencing.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o right, so maybe both against me

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Correct.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o dear not good, on what grounds do they have to stop me selling alcohol, dont they have to stop me on one of the four objectives like normal people do for an objection

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Normal objections yes.

You have to show that they were wrong.

Its your appeal - you have to prove it.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


so i get a copy of the minutes of the meeting , can i request them from the council and will they supply them

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes and yes.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


ok will do then, do i have to let licensing what is going on, guess they wont be happy either after working behind the scenes

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Welcome - good luck
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

it seems crazy ive got premises licence in my hand, they had 28 days like everybody else yet that dont apply to them

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
That's why you need to appeal.....
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


In your expert option in my shoes what would you do ?, I think ive a lot going in my favour, to get one in the ist place is not easy ive the hard work by doing that, and to be taken away from me,sadly i dont have your looks and brains to fight them in the court, on my own such a pity you cant help me on the day

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I haven't seen all the evidence so it would be unfair to me to say either way

But if you have been trading a selling then I can't see it being an issue
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


well been trading there for over 5yrs, but this is a ist for the booze as trade is getting so slow, nothing in the town to bring them in, charging for car parking, and replacing budgens for waitrose, now sainsburys and adsa are on their way, when they come in, thats it our days are numbered , sadly , so i gotta do something


 

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Ok - again unfair for me to give a view without seeing everything.....................
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


well can we change that is there any way of you looking at all the evidence, ?, you have the same evidence as me thus far until i get copy of the minutes, i applied and got my premises licence , council had a meeting and decided i could not sell it on markets, if i give you contact details would you please review the evidence for me?

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Site rules prevent me from doing this - you see the disclaimer below about lawyer - client relationship...........


Customer: replied 3 years ago.


thats a great shame in a few minutes you would have the answer, i dont even know your name, dont tell me you cant tell me that

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I can.

My name is Nic.

But you need to remember this is a question and answer site to provide general guidance...................
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Hi Nic, so put it this way if i type what the minutes say, can you answer that way

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Not really - because that is giving a legal view, which I am not permitted to do.

This site is for general information and not for offering formal legal advice, ie from a lawyer..............
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


pity your hands are tied like that, but i have to ask , should i inform licensing in the morning

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
To appeal - yes.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ok will have a good think over night, but dont want to throw good money after bad, my big worry is they will make my life hell if i win

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Sure. Good luck
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


thank you gonna need it, one thing should the council of informed me or invited me over to the meeting so i could the questions because they coming across as cowards

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Not necessarily no.

They can assess your application based on what you put in it.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


i had one objection on it from a fellow trader, but licensing said have a word with him to see if he will drop it, i did and explained every thing to him he agreed to drop it and we shook hands on it, so that meant no objections so i got my licence, off the deputy town clerk i heard that the coucillors were stirring it up, also the local beat officer, none of whom had the guts to approach me with questions

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I see. Based on what you said you have reasonable prospects of appeal.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

o ok, coming from you that means a lot , i dont really want to go to court but dont really have a lot of choice,where would it be held , local to them i guess

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
No - it would be your local Mags Court.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o right , god they can charge travelling expenses on top,

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
No.


Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o great thats fantastic news, would it be my local licensing attending or the ones from the area concerned

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes it would
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


yes my local licensing team

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes local licencing team
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o right , strange if its in a different area, mine were lovely and very helpfull as well as the other team, why cant the other side claim travel expenses

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Because they are paid to attend anyway.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

o right ok,plus i forgot to say i wrote in a fantastic email to licensing setting out what i intented to do, so i could use that in my defence , if i defend myself would they allow for me being a lay men in the court and being very nervous

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
The Court make allowances yes.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


lol they would need too !!!!!would this hearing have an advise effect on me in my area from my local licensing team

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
None whatsoever
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

o ok thats reassuring , the press got hold of the story last time , because i sell sweets , could the same happen again

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
No..................
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o great you really helping , you are giving loads of confindence to go for an appeal,if i appeal on my own what can i claim for, days wages, rent for market ive lost,travel etc, if i win

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
No - nothing like that.

Only the licence itself.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o right the other side dont pay my costs then , so if i have legal help that would not be liable

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
If you get legal help you may be able to claim costs.



Important: If you feel the need to rate as one of the lower two scores, it counts as negative feedback so please reply to me via the REPLY with any further questions you may have. I will be happy to assist you further.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

and i get a decision that day

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
YEs
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o ok, what days do they normally do hearings, to suit me or just when they can fit us in?

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
The Court will list it, you will have no say.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o ok, so that will lose me money on not being to work , I spoke to licensing this morning they were far from happy with the sitution, and wanted a copy of the letter, town clerk number etc, Her words were they cant just do that, but was going to check with her supervisor, but ive not heard anything since, im going there torromow so there could be fireworks!!!, so fingers crossed for me i get some good news tonight, bloody vehicle has broken down now, just waiting for the A.A, what a day!!

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Good luck!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


on which bit ?lol

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
The whole thing.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


thank you, back home at last nitemare, AA soon got me going, traffic was bad, bad news from licensing, the boss seems to think thats it nothing they can do, gonna phone deputy clerk in the morning, wish you would read the minutes , so i know if i should appeal or not, but understand if u cant

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Yes appeal.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


you think to appeal

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
That is what I said yes.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ok i will take your answer and act upon it, just wish u could help me in the court room you would tear them to shreads , but understand u cant sadly,
sorry again how do i write the appeal letter ,

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Dear Sirs

I wish to appeal the decision dated xxxxx.

Yours faithfully.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.


ok thats done, will the town clerk know what to do next

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Wait to get a Court date.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


ok, you seem confindent about it and yoou do this all the time

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I do them regular.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


i bet you do with your job, being a barrister do you wear the gown and the wig, bet you had some really intresting cases, yes i know you cant tell me

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Thats right.

I am glad I could help
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


you are brilliant, you certainly have helped , so clever, so quick with your answers, you gonna be around when i hear more, or do i get a ltd time with your answers

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
You can post follow ups but please remember I have given you quite a bit of information for the fee you have paid for.

Remember a Solicitor would be around £200 an hour for time.





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Customer: replied 3 years ago.

yes im certainy in the wrong game, dread to think what you charge an hour , lol, so if they argue i never got full permission to sell on their markets and slagged me off in their meeting , one after the other even tho they dont even know me, you still say appeal

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Ok - well good luck with this.

I am going to ask that the thread be closed now as I think we have exhausted everything and I can not offer anything new.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

misery, so again the total amount of costs if i lose please

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Is as I have previously said.

£5k
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


5k, o right i thought you said their costs would be no more than 500, 5k god almighty thats a huge difference

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
£5k including Mags and Crown Court.

Thats worst case, which you asked for.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

you scared me there, lets say mags court and say i lose , how much about if i lose

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I have already told you this before - please see my answer above.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


gotta find it , will take ages , can i ask you a morg question tommorow, can you answer about it


 

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
ok
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


ok thanks Nic nite

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Night
Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I'm just following up with you to see how everything is going. Did my answer help?

UK-Justice
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


hi my ex has gone but her name is still on the morg, ive removed her name of the title deeds, im not behind on my payments, and they wont take into effect lodgers, if i tell them they will move me to a higher rate product, and i dont earn enough to pay it myself , am i breaking the law by leaving her name on? what can i do?

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
That is a new question and can I trouble you to start a new question thread for that please?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

how ? do i have to pay again?

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
I am a legal expert so I haven't seen the site from the customer end

You either pay per question or can take out a subscription and have unlimited questions

I think you need to post a new one though.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


mmmmmmmmmmmmm, not sure why you agreed to answer last night then you want me to start afresh today, cant understand with your earning power you on here to start with, cant see you needing the money lol, but its great you are helping others out , with yr clever brains, even if it is ltd what you can do, letter of appeal will be going in at lunchtime, and rumours are around the town that the council were going to change the rules if i got the licence to stop me selling booze, petty and narrow minded it seems

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Perhaps it is my fault - you asked if you could ask a mortgage question tomorrow and I said yes.

I did not make it clear you need to open a new question

But it's one question per thread.

Hope that helps!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


o right no you never said that, sorry not gonna pay again, in the time you took to explain , you could of answered it, im struggling at it is, so cant afford 2 payments, yes i know you are worth every penny, but of course you dont get the whole fee,and more than likely it will be only one or two quick questions , so not worth paying again, sorry

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Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
That's ok.

But in short you are not breaking the law

It's a contractual matter. You are breaching the terms by not telling them

But it's not a criminal offence
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ahhhhh thats very sweet of you, just to say ive dropped my letter in, and have requested a meeting , wait and see i guess if not mag court it will be i guess, i will leave you in peace, but let you know their reply if thats ok, will miss talking to you, bye for now x

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
Bye
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

short and too the point i guess lol , thanks for putting my mind at rest about morg, and all the help with licence , take care

Expert:  UK-Justice replied 3 years ago.
And you.

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