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Clare
Clare, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 33946
Experience:  I have been a solicitor in High Street Practice since 1985 with a wide general experience.
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I am looking for any authorities or precedents of different

Customer Question

I am looking for any authorities or precedents of different orders about the same subject matter being made (and enforceable) in different jurisdictions.
Specifically, for example, where the English High Court makes an order about contact between a parent and a vulnerable adult child (in England or elsewhere) and the parent lives in a different jurisdiction (where the young adult child is domiciled and which she regularly visits).
I wish to establish that the phrase - or elsewhere - cannot be in respect of other jurisdictions, but only - elsewhere in the jurisdiction of the English High Court.
Judges are spouting 'comity' at me but my research suggests that respect for the orders of another jurisdiction are not persuasive.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Nicola
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Hi Nicola


 


Again, I am happy to wait until you find a suitable expert.


 


Thanks and best wishes


 


Paul Harry Moed

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.

Hello,

We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

I apologize as we have not yet been able to find a Professional to assist you. Do you wish for me to continue to search for someone to assist you or would you like for us to close your question at this time?

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Please continue


 


Thanks

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.

Hello,

We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

I apologize as we have not yet been able to find a Professional to assist you. Do you wish for me to continue to search for someone to assist you or would you like for us to close your question at this time?

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


I really need the answer so please keep looking


 


Thanks


 


Paul

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

I apologize as we have not yet been able to find a Professional to assist you. Do you wish for me to continue to search for someone to assist you or would you like for us to close your question at this time?

Alternatively, if you find that your question is not getting answered you may want to consider posting your question on the US version of our site, www.justanswer.com, where your question would be made available to a wider range of professionals. You may be able to get an answer faster on the US version of JustAnswer.

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Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Perhaps this question can be answered then:-


 


Can a government or court of one jurisdiction be (held) in contempt by an order of a court of another jurisdiction?


 


e.g. American court makes order for return of 'spy' - Russian Government/Court ignoes them

Expert:  Stuart J replied 3 years ago.

I have been asked to look at this.

Some countries (but not all) have reciprocal agreements to enforce each others court orders.

If you let us have specific details and countries, we can answer further

Expert:  Clare replied 3 years ago.
Hi
With regard to your specific question regarding Contact Orders the issue depends on which countries are involved and the exact wording of the order.
If you could give this information then it would be of assistance
Claire
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


The English High Court has ruled that I am not permitted to have direct contact with my adult autistic daughter at her residential care home in Poole, Dorset, "or elsewhere"


Although she resides there full time, she does come back to Guernsey (where she was born and where I live) about every 4 weeks. Guernsey are the Local Authority and fund all expenses and fees.


My question is this-


Can the English High Court "or elsewhere" part of the order be eforceable in Guernsey or is it only enforceable in England and Wales?


I am applying to the Guernsey Court to have direct contact with her in Guernsey and they are saying that I have to go back to the English High Court for their permission to do so, which I think is untenable in Law and a 'nonsense'. Even if the English High Court made such an Order, Guernsey are under no obligation to comply with it, making it, as I say above, a 'nonsense'!


I look forward to your response (and any authorities or prcedents you may know of.


Thank you


Paul Harry Moed

Expert:  Clare replied 3 years ago.
Hi
This is a Jurisdictional issue dealt with in the Domicile and Matrimonial Proceedings Act 1973 details here
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/45/schedule/1
There will have been similar legislation in Guernsey.
The effect of this is that whichever part of the United Kingdom the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man is the area where the child is domiciled is where any Court application is made
I hope that this is of assistance
Claire
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Thank you for your response. I am still puzzled, though.


 


Re:


 


"The effect of this is that whichever part of the United Kingdom the
Channel Islands and the Isle of Man is the area where the child is
domiciled is where any Court application is made"


 


Surely it must follow that any such application, if granted, is only enforceable in that jurisdiction?


 


Because my daughter has permanently resided in England since 2003 and aged 14, I persuaded the English High Court in 2006 that they had jurisdiction - in England - to make orders affecting her welfare and education whilst she resides in England. Guernsey are in effect a foreign 'Local Authority' who fund whatever it is the English Court determines. But I say that can only apply to her whilst she is in England.


 


The Act you have quoted was never quoted in the Hearing and Guernsey 'submittted' to the Jurisdiction of England and Wales, whilst at the same time refusing to be a party to the proceedings, stating that "We are a government. You cannot make Orders telling us what to do".


 


So, whilst my daughter is domiciled in Guernsey, there is an English High Court Order in place affecting her whilst she is resident in England, albeit it does not state that as a condition of the Order.


 


If she were to return to live in Guernsey, permanently, surely the English Orders would no longer be binding or enforceable?


 


My question remains, then, as to whether either Guernsey or the English High Court can claim that an English Order that I have no direct contact with my daughter in Poole, OR ELSEWHERE, is binding and enforcable?.


 


I want to submit to the Guernsey Court that this is neither intended nor enforceable and that they are bound, as the Jurisdiction of both domicile and of her funding and the jurisdiction in which I reside, to make an order in her best interests, as to contact with me, when she is in Guernsey.


 


Regarding your response, whilst Guernsey is the Jurisdictuion of her domicile, I believe that, in the same way, a Guernsey Court cannot make an order which is binding upon or enforceable in the English High Court.


 


What the Guernsey Court did, in respect of my application for contact with my daughter when she is in Guernsey, was to adjourn it, sine die, pending my making an application in England to vary the English High Court Order to enabl me to have direct contact in Guernsey.


 


Even if I were to do so, and the Application was granted, namely that I be permitted by the English High Court to have direct contact with my daughter in Guernsey, it would surely not be binding in or on Guernsey.


 


I need to be able to argue these points, but logic alone will obviously not suffice.


 


I would be very grateful for your further thoughts.


 


Thank you


 


Paul Harry Moed

Expert:  Clare replied 3 years ago.
Hi
The Guernsey Courts cannot make an Order regarding your daughter at present as she is Resident in England
If she returns to live in Guernsey then after 12 months they will have jurisdiction.
The issue of enforcement is actually different but there are also reciprocal arrangements in place which mean that an Order made in England can indeed be enforced in Guernsey - if necessary (it is not automatic)
I hope that this helps
Claire
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hi again


 


1. Your point that Guernsey cannot make an Order regarding her whilst she is resident in England is an interesting one, and in practice, they have been doing so for the past 10 years. Are they/were they somehow ultra vires?


 


2. I am somewhat surprised that you say that a Guernsey born, domiciled person would have to wait 12 months for her 'home' jurisdiction to have jurisdiction, were she to permanently return to Guernsey;


 


3. Are all types of orders covered by the reciprocal agreements? If not, what types of order are covered?


 


 


Your answers would only be helpful if you can cite the relevant Law and/or Authorities in support of each of the above 3 points you have made. Without these the Guernsey Court of Appeal is unlikely to give them much weight.


 

Expert:  Clare replied 3 years ago.
Hi
What orders have the Guernsey Court made?
Claire

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