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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10915
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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I have bought a Jewellery Voucher from Ebay - which the seller

Customer Question

I have bought a Jewellery Voucher from Ebay - which the seller claimed has £179. I Sold the jewellery voucher to someone else. That person took the voucher and it turns out it had £3179in credit in it which he bought a piece of jewellery with. The seller is claiming for the voucher back and accusing me of theft - I don't know what to do? Am I liable for his misrepresentation? What should my answer be back to him given this is what he wrote to me: I have just spoken with my insurers who informed me that they added an additional £3000 to the card and that you have spent this money that you were aware did not belong to you this is in fact theft. We are aware of where and when the monies was spent and I have spoken to the police who confirm this is theft. I now intend to attend the police station with all details regarding the sale, all correspondence and contact details unless I hear from you within the hour with an alternative resolution. You were aware that the monies did not belong to you as you purchased £179 worth and in fact when you realized additional funds were added you spent what you knew was not yours to spend, so unless you wish to explain this to the police I strongly suggest you contact me immediately.

The seller left me a positive feedback and I won this item fair and square.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Hi.

Thank you for your question. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.

What would you like to know about this please?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

- Is the seller claims true?


- does this constitute theft?


- Would the police be after me given I won the item fair and square and paid for it?


- Would I be liable to return the item back to the seller?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Do I or the person who I sold that voucher to have any financial liabilities towards the first seller who sold the item under the impression it has £179 on it when it actually had £3179?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Hi

On your specific point, I am sorry but that is theft. If you purchased a voucher worth £179 and spent over £3k knowing that it was not yours to spend then that is theft I'm afraid.

I am afraid that if he reported it then the police would act against you unfortunately.

You will only be liable to repay if he sues in the civil courts. The police cannot force you to reimburse him but obviously you can be prosecuted under the criminal law.

The threat he is making is that if you don't repay he will report this matter. Obviously its a matter for you but it might be useful to make contact with him and resolve this.

Can I clarify anything for you?

Jo
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

 

The seller sold the item stating it had £179 so technically he has miss represented the value of the voucher. The voucher I bought turns out to have £3179.

 

Why would it be considered theft if he sent it to me willingly ? and I bought it ?

 

Also, The seller is not expecting I would send the voucher back to him after using £179 of it out of the £3179. He sold me the whole voucher and miss represented or was ignorant of its value.

 

Would the police act against me even though I have made contact with the seller to resolve it within 3 days?

 

Would that still be grounds to constitute as theft if I am working to sort this out and repay?

 

 

It was on ebay.

 

Is this actually theft??

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
No, you haven't.

You purchased a voucher for £179.

If you have spent £3000 then that is theft. Whether you repay it or not makes no difference. You should not have spent it I'm afraid.

The police would act if he reports it but if you make contact with him and repay it he may not report it.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

The seller sold me a jewellery voucher for what was on it.


 


He claimed it had £179 only, but turns out it had more.


 


We did not have prior arrangement not to spend over £179 or anything he was ignorant of the fact of how much it was worth.


 


I think similarly if someone sold a coin for £1 that turns out to be a gold coin worth £1000


 


isn't it? How is that different?


 


Also, it was only when the card was presented at the cashier did the transaction go through without asking for additional money.


 


What would the police do? and since he reported, what difference would it make if I contacted him and resolved it? since its just been 3 days?


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Yes, but thats not what happened. You were sold something that was worth £179 and spent £3000. Its the same as somebody placing £3k in your account. Its your responsibility to return it.

The police would arrest and charge you with the theft.

It would make no difference to them if you repaid it but it would mitigate the sentence and also he probably won't report it if you repay.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

 


There would be a sentence??


 


If he reported it already, would he be able to retract it??


 


Say if he re written the receipt with the date agreeing to sell the whole 3000 worth of credit on the voucher?


 


I have not spent it knowingly its a voucher.


 


 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Also,


 


bear in mind I did not get the change to RETURN it. So how would that be considered theft??


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
He could retract but this doesn't read as though he reported it.

I'm really sorry but I'm afraid that if you spent £3000 on a voucher worth £179 then whatever was on the receipt, that is theft. You could always have contacted the seller and anyway did not have to spend it.

If you contact him to try to sort it out then you might be able to argue there was no dishonesty though but he probably won't report it anyway.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I will rephrase my question:


 


What I meant was, if I get in contact with the buyer and he re-sells me the remainder of the voucher the £3000 on it and I pay him for it. Obviously it means I paid him back for whatever was used in error and no dishonest was intended as there was a purchase in the jewellery store and the cashier took the whole money from the voucher without asking for any further balance in cash. So it seemed the voucher had enough to cover the purchase.


 


 


The question is if the seller sells the voucher again to me and back dates the receipt to reflect the true figures rather than his erroneous figure, then would that still be considered theft given I bought the whole amount fair and square? in that case would he be able to retract the report being an error on his side?


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
1 It doesn't do anything about the overspending but if you repay it then that would lend weight to your defence that you did not act dishonestly as the offence of theft requires. If that does not succeed then the fact that you had repaid the sum in question would go to the sentence in your favour.

2 I'm not really sure you can do that. That would seem to be an inaccurate receipt. He cannot retract a report anyway but he can tell the police he no longer wants to support a prosecution.

I'm happy to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

 


 


What sort of sentence would I be looking at knowing I did not act in dishonesty and three days later I am happy to reimburse the person the monies spent on the voucher (which were already there) without him knowing so.


 


Surely there is some sort of negligence on his side for sending a c voucher without checking how much was on it.


 


Can't he contact the police and inform them he miss-reported and that this is no longer considered theft?


 


 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

What guarantees have I got if I offered and contacted the seller and offered to pay him the monies and settle this matter that he would not then after it go to the police and file a report against me??


 


What should I ask as guarantees or papers so that future claims or reports to the police would be invalid?

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

It seems the professional has left this conversation. This happens occasionally, and it's usually because the professional thinks that someone else might be a better match for your question. I've been working hard to find a new professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're OK with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Nicola
Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Hello my name is XXXXX XXXXX I will help you with this. Please note that I am a working Solicitor and may be on and offline as I have to attend Court and meet with clients, even at weekends. As such you may not get an instant response when you reply as this is not an ‘on demand’ live service, but rest assured I will be giving your question my immediate attention upon return.

I see the expert has opted out - do you still need help?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Yes I still need help. Perhaps you can read through the thread and answer accordingly to my enquiry. The previous expect provided no exit to the problem I am in it seems and just provided a verdict that this is pure theft, perhaps not aware fully there is a voucher involved whereby you did not know the value of until you bought an item and the cashier processed the transaction. You assumed since its a card provided by an insurance and the ownership presumably transferred from the seller to yourself, then if the card is over drawn or over spent then you would be contacted to settle it.


 


This all happen in a matter of 2 weeks.


 


I have requested the seller number of ebay, which I got and tried contacting him this morning with no reply. I have emailed him on ebay as well last night and still waiting for an answer. my reply was 3 days after his threat email, I am afraid he might have reported it to the police already and afraid there maybe a sentence involved when 1. I don't see a dishonesty element to constitute theft since I am paying them back for the over spent on the voucher. 2. no intention of theft what so ever.

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
I have read the above exchange and the expert is right, you have received a credit of £3179 when you were only entitled to £179 of that. Who spent the £3000 - you? How did you find out? What else do you need to know about this?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I was sold a card and told it has 179, but it seemed it had £3179 - the deal was't to return the card back, according to the seller it seems the insurance company added a further 3000 to that card when he should of informed them to transfer ownership of that card to me since its sold and no further credit added.

 

When I made the purchase and it went through; I thought this is a technical error perhaps and the insurance company are ought to contact me to pay the difference which I was expecting anyway as I have the funds (less 15% discount as they do) ( I didn't use the full £3179) I did not know its still in the sellers hand and his liability, but wouldn't mind rectifying it to whomever. I was never informed to use £179 out of whatever is on the card it was straight forward bid of a card of this much is up for grabs and I won the bid.

 

What would I be facing here given I have been in contact to rectify this and not being dishonest or intentionally stealing?

 

Do I face a sentence and imprisonment? if so How long?? I am freaking out here as this is the first time such thing happens to me. Is there a way I can defend this?

 

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
It is in effect wrongly receiving and retaining a credit to which you are not entitled. No you would not go to prison for this, it is likely to be a fine for a Community Order which would be Probation, so unpaid work, an activity programme etc.

If this answers your question, please take a moment before you leave and rate my service, which I hope has been excellent, it only takes a second and is an important part of the process. Otherwise if you need more information or help then please click reply. Alex

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I did not intentionally receive it knowing that this is how much is in it. It looks like a magnetic card with no indication what so ever on it of how much is on it unless you walk in a shop and make a purchase.

 

am I right to understand even given these circumstances there is a case against me?? this looks more like a set up ?!

 

Are you also saying I have no argument to get myself out of this?

 

Given I have contacted the seller and looking to pay off whatever extra used out f his voucher?

 

Is it clear that there is no dishonest element or an intentional theft element in this?

 

Thanks.

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Yes because you wrongfully received a credit and did not return it. Whether it is clear is a matter of evidence. The prosecution would have to show dishonesty. The fact you are paying it back does not show it was not dishonest. Alex

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Does that mean I have no argument to show honesty?


 


DO I not have argument at all to get out of this?


 


In fact evidence on paper that came with the card shows the credit of £179 with confirmation letters from the insurance company stating £179 with a very recent date.


 


It was only after merchant charged the card was I aware: 1. Either it went withdrawn and I am due to receive a statement to pay that or need to contact the seller to let them know.


 


I have contacted the seller.


 


How would they provide evidence of dishonesty?

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
It would be for the prosecution to prove dishonesty, in that you were dishonest by the standards of a reasonable person and you knew that you were. You do not have to prove anything, it is for the prosecution to prove. Alex

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

can you please address my questions and provide clearer answers please.

 

What guarantees have I got if I offered and contacted the seller and offered to pay him the monies and settle this matter that he would not then after it go to the police and file a report against me??

 

Thanks.

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Perhaps you can number each question and I can answer each one.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

1 - What guarantees have I got if contacted the seller and offered to pay him the monies and settle this matter that he would not then pursue this matter with the police and file a report against me?? Can I ask him to write a letter that if paid he wouldn't report to the police? Bear in mind he said if I do not contact him he will report it to the police, which I did and we agreed a settlement already now.

 

 

 

- 2 If this gets to the police, DO I not have argument at all to get out of this?

 

3 - You say I have wrongfully received the credit and did not return it, but I am in the process of returning it by paying for it - that is because I had no idea and there is no indication of me knowing there was a credit on that card that did not belong to me as the papers that came with the card state others and only highlight £179.

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
1. You have no guarantee whatsoever. Any prosecution would belong to the Police and not to the seller.

2. Only the fact that you say you were not dishonest. The Police would have to prove this.

If this answers your question, please take a moment before you leave and rate my service, which I hope has been excellent, it only takes a second and is an important part of the process. Otherwise if you need more information or help then please click reply. Alex

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I will rephrase the question:


 


1) The seller says, if I settle this matter with him, he will not report it to the police. How do I guarantee that? Can I take written evidence from him stating that He shall not pursue this with the police? Re-write the original receipt and amend it to reflect the whole amount rather than the £179 apparently we both thought was the only amount on the card?


 

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
1. You can not guarantee that. You can pay and he can go to the Police, you can not stop that. All you can do is confirm that any payment is in full and final settlement. Alex

If this answers your question, please take a moment before you leave and rate my service, which I hope has been excellent, it only takes a second and is an important part of the process. Otherwise if you need more information or help then please click reply. Alex
Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Can I clarify anything for you, if not could you please rate my service as I have answered your question - thank you. Alex

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Question is what would he benefit from that?


 


 

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
None really, apart from a prosecution. Alex

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Might I invite you to rate my service so that I am compensated for my time from the site? Thank you.

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