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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 70187
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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I came out of a side road and there were roadworks on the road

Resolved Question:

I came out of a side road and there were roadworks on the road I was entering with traffic lights although the sign to say "wait here" was to my right,which I couldn't see and the works were fenced from the road I exited from.The lights were amber as far as I'm concerned and I turned onto the road and then immediately right,so as not to go into the oncoming traffic although they had not started moving yet,when I was going down the road an unmarked police car that had been sitting in a dark clearing stopped me and the officer asked if i knew what he'd stopped me for,I said no and he said for jumping a red light,I feel it was a bit of a set up as there was nothing else I could do and if I stayed where I was any oncoming traffic would not have been able to turn right into the road I was coming out of,I subsequently checked with the council to see if these works had a traffic order and they replied that they didn't,I'm a taxi driver in this town and the way the woks was situated there wasn't anything else I could do,I got given a ticket and have been offered a course but I feel a bit aggrieved by it and was wondering if there was anything I could do seeing as it did not have a traffic order for those lights,I believe I entered the road when the lights were amber,I had a passenger on board as well and did not sign the ticket the officer asked me to because I felt it was a set up so he wrote in capital DECLINED and the asked am I sure I don't want to sign it,I said no.

Regards XXXXX
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Hi.

Thank you for your question. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.

How can I help with this please?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I want to know if there's anything I can do to appeal against the ticket because the lights did not have a traffic order.my ticket has contrary to section 36(1) of the 1988 road traffic act regulation 10.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Sorry if I'm missing the point but on what basis ?

You seem to accept the lights were amber?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes they were amber but the officer says they were red and ticketed me for "contriving a red traffic light" but there were two officers and my point is that the roadwork lights shouldn't have been there because they didn't have a "works order" and section 36(1) of the 1988 road traffic act (which is what I've been ticketed for) says they have to be lawfully placed which I believe they weren't ,and I entered from the side road which was passed the sign which says wait here,so i couldn't have jumped a light because I was already passed the "imaginary line" .Would it be worth appealing the ticket or should i just pay for and do the course.Its their word against mine but where they were sat they were just waiting for people to do that as there is nothing else you could do except join the traffic that was coming down the hill,so it would nearly always be amber or just turning red.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Thanks for the information.

I am sorry but its bad news.

The prohibition upon red light offences arises from S36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which you will find here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/36

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 36.1.(1).(e) which you will find here

http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/TSRGD-2002.pdf

sets down that amber alone conveys the same prohibition as the red signal except that ‘as respect any vehicle which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond the stop line, it shall convey the same indication as the green signal’.

So, in short, you must stop on amber unless doing so would be unsafe. Usually that has been interpreted to mean a vehicle being tailgated. You have to show that it was unsafe to stop to contest a red light offence upon amber.

On your substantive point, they haven’t brought the wrong charge. XXXXX XXXXXghts are prosecuted under S36 RTA 1988 as are reds. Its the same offence.

I'm sorry this isn't the answer you wanted but it is the position that you face and I have a duty to inform you truthfully.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need more information.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Thanks for the information,but my point is that I thought these lights needed a "traffic order" from the council to be legally placed and they didn't have an order so they shouldn't have been there,so basically anyone can put a red light where they want and for arguments sake I could outside my house.Its really not the answer I was hoping for but if a traffic order means nothing then what is the point of having them?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.

No, it doesn't. Red lights are not imposed by the traffic management order. That relates to on an off road parking. Red lights, like speed limits, are imposed by order of the Department of Transport.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
But they are not permanent lights,just lights that the workmen put there and the police were sitting in an unmarked car in the dark just waiting for people to do that.I feel like I'm being robbed by them really.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
It may very well be unfair but the fact that its not in the Traffic Management Order is not a defence. You wouldn't normally expect to find red lights in the traffic management order.

You can check that the department of transport have authority though.
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