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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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Hi I hope you can help me? I agreed to buy a converted

Customer Question

Hi
I hope you can help me?

I agreed to buy a converted horse van for a man on facebook. I paid a £500 deposit via paypal with the idea that the van would be delivered for me and a mechanic to check over then pay the balance by pal pal. I choose a colour and he set to work on the van. A fortnight later the van is ready and i am told on Friday the 13th that the van could be delivered on Sunday 15th but he will only except cash or bank transfer. The van is in Doncaster and I live in Teesside. I could not see the van before putting down a deposit as i have a torn cartlidge and can not drive that far.....hence wanting to pay on pay pal so I could reclaim money if there was a problem. On Sat 14th was told he would not except a paypal payment so I told him I was not interested as the only other delivery available was after 6 in the dark and cash must be paid on delivery.He was not willing to wait to the following weekend. It is £5000 and its a lot of money to me. He also stated that he had people waiting for the van and he cant make enough of them to met demand so surely reselling on wont be a problem? He is now not willing to deliver van and is insisting full payment within 5 days......Help how do I stand? Can this be classed as a doorstep sale and I can refuse to come out of this??? feeling very pressured and threatened by this man, and he has already stated he will not return deposit or re sell on? Nothing has been signed it is all verbal, I dont even know this man's address!! but he knows where i live, worried
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.

Alex Watts :

Hello my name is Alex and I will help you with this. Please note that I am a working Solicitor and may be on and offline as I have to attend Court and meet with clients, even at weekends. As such you may not get an instant response when you reply, but rest assured I will be giving your question my immediate attention upon return You do not need to wait here as you will get an email when I reply.

Alex Watts :

Just so that I am clear you offered a deposit on condition you inspected it?

Alex Watts :

Can you confirm that you did not actually pay a deposit?

Alex Watts :

Please note it may be the morning when I pick this up.

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

I thought this was an asap service, didnt expect not to get an answer tonight

Alex Watts :

Ok - its not instant, experts work from home and are normal people with day jobs!

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

Sorry it said you where offline, im just a little worried no offence intended

Alex Watts :

Ok - if you could give me the info required I can wrap this up for you tonight

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

I keep it brief, have paid £500 deposit on pay pal for a horse box, was expecting to pay balance on paypal on delivery 15th dec. On 13th he called and stated that had to be cash or bankers draft which I wasnt willing to do. I then Cancelled and asked for refund as he stated he could easily sell van on - ie putting pressure on me. Now stating I have to pay upfront before deliviery with cleared funds into his account - not paypal. He is wanting me to pay for a van I havent seen in full upfront. Im in Teeside he is in Doncaster, He has offered me a viewing but he knows I cant drive far due to a torn cartlidge in knee......he is threatening that i have to pay within 5 days any help appreciated

Alex Watts :

Did Paypal refund you?

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

This is a copy of email Hi Julia. Sorry for late reply as sort advise on my legal position. I won't be returning your deposit and will request full balance within five working days. The van is available for inspection at anytime at my workshop. I'm now not prepared to deliver unless balance is paid for in full prior to delivery. I'm happy to accept PayPal as long as you cover all fees and allow funds to be with drawn to my bank account. PayPal is not a escrow service. If this is not acceptable I require you to pay for the cost of the respray which is £1000. It was you who requested a evening delivery I was happy to deliver anytime but as u work and claimed you could not have time off during the day I did agree a evening delivery. Your claim of having the right to cancel due to me not sending full spec list is not valid but I am happy to send one at anytime to any valid email address. You expecting me to stand 7% PayPal fees on the balance is not acceptable as that is over 50% of the profit. This van was resprayed a colour of your choice and while I feel I can sell the van quiet easily the customer may request a different colour or demand a discount. I have no wish to argue with you via lots of emails and I am confident of my legal position. I will add also morally I feel you've been extremely unfair and disgenuine as the van is as expected and could have been delivered within the agreed estimate of delivery. Regards David.

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

No paypal have not refunded me I have allowed him 48hrs to do the decent thing and above is response I have received in full

Alex Watts :

Ok -contact Paypal and ask for a refund. This does not come under Doorstep selling but if you agreed to purchase on condition of inspection and Paypal and he is refusing then you can refuse to pay.

Alex Watts :

Your agreement was conditional and if he did not or now does not agree then he can not force you to buy./

Alex Watts :

In short cancel the Paypal payment, ask for a refund and there is nothing the seller can do.

Alex Watts :

Does this help?

Alex Watts :

In short your contract was conditional and he did not abide by the conditiona.

Alex Watts :

I am up at 6.30am tomorrow for Court so really need to go to bed.

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :
  • How quickly would this be ready, would be ideal to have it before xmass, i would need it delivered as cant drive far with knackered knee. Am really keen, just wish i could see before delivered...put being able to use paypal is reassuring jxx

  • David Thomas
    David Thomas

    Hi within two weeks of deposit paid and final colour choice. Agree about PayPal and I send a full spec list etc to PayPal so it's all in writing. Balance paid on delivery. Regards

Alex Watts :

If you have additional questions or need clarification I can do this now or reply early tomorrow?

Alex Watts :

Yes then you do not need to worry

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

Ok thankyou very much for yout ime Appreciated !!! sleep well :)

Alex Watts :

It is all in writing, he agreed Paypal and now he is refusing.

Alex Watts :

Paypal fees are only 3% anyway

Alex Watts :

Can I help further or does this resolve it for you?

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

3.4% maximum.

Alex Watts :

Yes

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

Will gather more proof and catch you later tomorrow thankyou for this it has been a big help, Apreciated

Alex Watts :

If this answers your question could I invite you leave feedback on my service which I hope has been excellent today, if you need more information or help then please click reply.

Please remember that I am always happy to help if you have future questions, even if I am in Court I can normally respond within a few hours. For future information, please start them with ‘For Alex W’.

Please bookmark my profile if you wish for future help: http://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/expert-alexwatts/

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :
  • Ok lets go for it, the original yellow and white 52 with full mot and tax till Feb to be delivered before the 15th ( ive got dressage away day, maybe in my new van!!) 5500 delivered. Still cant decide on a colour. Deposit to be paid via paypal, is this agreeable julia

    with 100k on the clock i think?

    Oh does it have horse tie up rings on outside?

  • MOre proof
    David Thomas

    Yes that's fine And all above correct. I will send u full agreed spec and agreed terms once deposit paid along with reg of van so u can fully check van out via hip etc. if anything different from agreed or stated PayPal will return deposit. Thanks

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

I didnt receive the full spec and agreed terms once deposit was paid neither was the reg. I got reg on saturday 14th Deposit paid on 8th i think. He states if anything different paypal will return deposit .

JACUSTOMER-7wnf3dm9- :

Thanks will let you sign off and catch up in morning

Alex Watts : Yes you have proof. The seller has no claim. Do not be bullied by him.
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

Just a quick reminder, there is an unrated answer waiting for you here from the Professional.

If the Expert was helpful, rating their answer as satisfactory transfers your deposit to them – this is how the Expert is compensated.

To rate your answer, you can go to your question page, and click one of the five faces below the Expert's answer. Please be sure you are logged in with your username and password or you will not be able to view or rate your answer.

If you still need help with your question, please feel free to reply to the Expert on this question page. You may ask as many follow-up questions on the same question page as you need until you are satisfied.

Thank you,
Nicola
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

No Situation not resolved. Tried to get deposit back through paypal resolution Centre and they have given him my deposit saying it it outside their bounds of coverage see Below :-


 


"We have concluded our investigation into your Buyer Claim. We regret to
inform you that we were unable to resolve this case because the complaint
was outside the bounds of coverage as defined in our User Agreement. As a
result, we have not taken any action at this time. Please be assured that
this case has been noted in the seller's record for future reference"


 


I Am now £500 down and he now wants £1000 for the respray job. He has re advertised the van at £6500 not the £5500 i was quoted so he will get his £1000 costs recovered on new sale. Originally I asked for the van without a respray and he stated that he had to respray due to the amount of conversion work he has to do on the van.


 


Getting really stressed and feeling very threatened once again.


 


Below is recent correspondence from him:-


 



  • Monday









  • David Thomas




    Hi Julia. Sorry for late reply as sort advise on my legal position. I won't be returning your deposit and will request full balance within five working days. The van is available for inspection at anytime at my workshop. I'm now not prepared to deliver unless balance is paid for in full prior to delivery. I'm happy to accept PayPal as long as you cover all fees and allow funds to be with drawn to my bank account. PayPal is not a escrow service. If this is not acceptable I require you to pay for the cost of the respray which is £1000. It was you who requested a evening delivery I was happy to deliver anytime but as u work and claimed you could not have time off during the day I did agree a evening delivery. Your claim of having the right to cancel due to me not sending full spec list is not valid but I am happy to send one at anytime to any valid email address. You expecting me to stand 7% PayPal fees on the balance is not acceptable as that is over 50% of the profit. This van was resprayed a colour of your choice and while I feel I can sell the van quiet easily the customer may request a different colour or demand a discount. I have no wish to argue with you via lots of emails and I am confident of my legal position. I will add also morally I feel you've been extremely unfair and disgenuine as the van is as expected and could have been delivered within the agreed estimate of delivery. Regards David.










  • Wednesday






  • Julia Warden




    Have taken copies of all conversations to a solicitor today. They state that the conditions of sale have changed from original agreement in relation to payment. We are now both unwilling to reach agreement for our own reasons. They have suggested that I lodge dispute with Paypal to return deposit which I have done. I do agree that I have no wish to argue, I hold no personal issue towards you, I just cant release over 5K of cleared funds before delivery it is a lot of money to me, Im truly disappointed. If you want to forward your address, my solicitor would be happy to write to you directly to discuss this matter a lenght. regards Julia










  • Thursday






  • David Thomas




    That's fine and know accept your are not continuing with the sale and are replying on lies. No where does it say I would accept the full balance via PayPal kindly send copy where it does if im incorrect. If this is what your relying on then I suggest you think again as I later did agree to PayPal payment if U covered fees. I will now sell the van and issue a bill for the respray regards










  • Today






  • David Thomas




    Good Morning Julie. As Im sure your aware Paypal have found against you and released the £500 deposit to me. I would now like to move this forward and can assure you I take no please in any of this. As you have properly seen the van is now complete and fantastic and for sale on facebook for £6500 which is what its worth. I am prepared to still sell to you at agreed cost if you wish to proceed on new agreed terms that you pay via bank draft cash or transfer once your happy and inspected the van. The alternative is sadly if the new buyer requests a different colour I would look to you via the small claims court to recover that cost. I hope this does not happen but can assure you I willl pursue this as I am very confident about my legal position. Which ever way it goes I will always be friendly and professional in any dealings we may have. Regards















  • David Thomas




    see full details on my wall.






    This attachment may have been removed or the person who shared it may not have permission to share it with you.







  • Today






  • Julia Warden




    I appreciate this offer. The van looks stunning as i knew it would do. Ive had a truly traumatic few days and im just back from a heartbreaking funeral in Bristol. Im now away from work so will have a few days to settle and clear my head, and give thought to this van . As I say ive not got any personal issues with yourself in the slightest. There have been a lot of people publicized in Teesside of selling horses boxes and not delivering, my friend is one. This is not an excuse, just trying to give you my back ground as to why when asked for cash before delivery I got cold feet and had to seek advice. Again I appreciate this email Regards Juliax















  • David Thomas




    Thats fine Julia but just want to correct you on a few things. i did not ask for cash in advance. i was happy to deliver and you pay me upon delivery once you had inspected the van. The argument came when you insisted on paypal and me standing the £700 fees that would attract which is totally unfair and as proved via our fb conversations never agreed as you claimed. Only then did I insist on payment in advance as I had lost faith in you as a customer and did not want to turn up and again you insist on a paypal payment. Anyway lets move forward. The van is now up for sale and have interest so if it sells prior to you making your mind up sorry but so be it. If the new customer accepts the box in the colour it is, I wont pursue you for the cost of respray as it does cost £1000. If you do want the box the terms of sale are balance payable in advance of delivery by bank transfer. Sorry if you feel Im being harsh but Ive done all thats asked of me and feel its your side thats created the problems. Your of course welcome to view the van here at any stage. regards


    David















  • David Thomas




    to add you or your agent are welcome to collect the van and pay me then Regards










Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
You can still issue proceedings.

You should to write and set out your losses and ask for a refund within 14 days or say you will go to Court. Make sure you send this recorded delivery and keep a copy.

If they refuse then you can issue proceedings which can be done online at: www.moneyclaim.gov.uk or by competing form N1 at: https://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n001-eng.pdf
The Court will then issue the claim which will be sent to the seller and they will have a limited time to defend it, if not you can enter Judgment and enforce it. If the matter is defended it will be set down for a hearing. If the losses are £10,000 or less then it will be a small claim and you do not need representation.

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

Alex