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Nicola-mod
Nicola-mod, Moderator
Category: Law
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I am aware that there are cases which firmly establish the

Customer Question

I am aware that there are cases which firmly establish the right of parents to decide between them who cares for their child on an ad hoc basis, without formal timetables, which was based on the right of parents to make private agreements without recourse to the courts. i.e. parents may decide who cares for their child for any perceived reason. I would appreciate one or more case references to this matter
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Thank you for your question.
My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will do my best to help you but I need some further information first.
I am a little confused as to what you are looking for - could you explain why you are looking for this?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I had an expert who said it was wrong of a mother to let me care for a child whilst she found a job (I was the Father with PR by signing the birth certificate). The case went to court because she has Bipolar and Social Services became involved. I believe that somewhere are some cases which say that Social Services cannot force a fixed timetable on parents sharing care of their children.


 


I can't do anything about the original case, which was some years ago, but the matter has come up as she has had another child (not mine) and the Local Authority intends to rely on evidence from that case.


 


The original case I found were some parents who shared care of their children on a mutually agreed timetable, then changed that timetable for some reason or other, Social Services went to court claiming it may cause harm, and the ruling said that parents may share care between themselves for any reason. It is annoying me that I can't find the ruling. References to similar cases will be fine.

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
For clarity - was the child subject to a care order?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Not at the time - we won against an interim care order which forced the local authority to return the child to us. The matter of sharing care came up later on whilst the "No Order" ruling was in effect and we lost due to this issue, because the local authority claimed we shouldn't be doing this and they hadn't been notified.

I have emails proving they lied on this issue, but I'm aware that its almost impossible to overturn adoption and I suspect this is true even if I prove the Local Authority perverted the course of justice and breached our right to a fair trial.

I am really trying to prevent the Local Authority from using their success in that case in this one

 

Timeline

Jan 2005 LA takes child into care without care order

Mar 2005 Interim Hearing:M+F successful in getting child returned under No Order

May 2005 M+F file privately agreed Shared Parenting Agreement between them with their respective law firms

Aug 2005 M+F have disagreement and M refuses to let F have C at his home

Oct 2005 F realises that she is unable to care for C on own, lets F resume staying visits, F notifies LA of change of circumstances

Nov 2005 M lets F look after C at his home whilst she trains for carer work (about 2-3 weeks). F notifies LA of change of circumstances

Nov 29th 2005: LA+Guardian ambush M+F with no notice at a Directions hearing, armed with latest report from Child Psychiatrist Judge makes order to return child back to Ms home without hearing evidence from M+F, only basing judgement on Psychiatrists report.


Dec 20th ish: Psychiatrist has upgraded report and thrown kitchen sink at mother for letting F have temporary care of C, alleging that child suffers harm in doing so. We lose child, adoption proceedings begin, not adopted till 2008

 

I have to sleep now, so I'll look for any reply in the morning if you're burning the midnight oil. Thanks for your patience.

 

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
I assume that from 2005 onwards there were ongoing care proceedings?
Does the current child have the same parents?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

No, the mother has had another child with a different father. I am not the father in this case.

 

I'm just trying to find ways and cases which can show the judgement in the earlier case was fatally flawed to limit the ability of the Local Authority to rely on it.

 

I put a rough timeline in for most of the events. I tried to stop the adoption in 2008 but failed. That cost me over £14,000 and I could not afford to appeal. (this case caused my bankruptcy through direct and indirect effects)

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Are you sure that the case you remember was a Care Case?
Have the LA been successful in taking the latest child off your ex or are they just threatening?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I'm fairly certain.


The case with regard to the latest child is ongoing now


I have until Wednesday to prepare a statement making representations concerning use of evidence from the earlier case in this one. I've written 20 pages and its just missing reference to cases which refer to the right of parents to share care between them for any perceived reason, whether that reason is actual or not. I'm fairly certain I found at least one case referring to this matter but it was about 2008 when I looked

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Why have you been ordered to prepare a statement?
Why is her Solicitor not dealing with this for her?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I don't know the full background of the current case as I only have limited information.


I believe the court asked for me to make representations on the reliance of information from the previous case, the request came via the Local Authority, but all parties will be informed of my response. I am simply trying to emphasize in my statement that my ex-partner and I were unjustly treated in the previous case and this is one aspect of it.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I don't know the full background of the current case as I only have limited information and I am not a Party to the Proceedings. The sister of my ex-partner has relayed her concerns to me about some issues, especially relating to the fact they are saying different things now than they did then, which is about the extent of my knowledge about the current case.

 

I believe the court asked for me to make representations on the reliance of information from the previous case, the request came via the Local Authority, but all parties will be informed of my response. I am simply trying to emphasize in my statement that my ex-partner and I were unjustly treated in the previous case and this is one aspect of it.

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Have you had any contact with mums solicitor?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Her solicitor seems to have a problem communicating with me.As far as I can tell some solicitors seem very unwilling to assist third parties even when it may be useful to their case; this seems to be one of them.

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
It is infuriating when a solicitor will not do everything necessary for the case
I am still uncertain which case you are referring to and have been through most of the references that I can find
However that does not mean it is not there just that it is a point that is not often referred to.
You may find that the Group www.frg.org.uk may be able to assist.
However your ex will be assisted by a very recent case - reported here
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/b-s-children.pdf
The important part of this case is that it makes clear that at ALL stages the LA must be looking to return the chid to the family if at all possible
I hope this helps.
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thankyou very much. Whilst that is not what I was looking for, but I think that will be incredibly useful


 


 


Regards


Mark

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Yes - it is case that is shaking up care law 9and some would say about time)
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Unfortunately I notice the appeal was dismissed though

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It does seem as though the details may be useful

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
It was not successful in this case no - but the case made clear that the LA have to look at rehab with the family at EVERY stage from first to last - not just at the start and dismiss it
Clare
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 2 years ago.

Hello,

Just a quick reminder, there is an unrated answer waiting for you here from the Professional.

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Thank you,
Nicola

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