Hello. I am going to be an investor/contractor for a commercial company who distributes bags in the .u.k. I know my area well and have good experience in emptying clothing banks in the region, but there is a lack of banks in the region and would like to place textile banks on several sites for the company. The company has agreed and we have a contract which states the all clothes generated by my banks will go to the warehouse to be recycled/reused, just as they would if I give the bags out and then collected them in and took them to the warehouse. The banks look like the bags distributed and have the same information on them, The company has 3 charities to choose from but the one I have selected does not pay the charity on income of weight or nothing like that. Instead it pays a large ££££ sum of money every month. So the charity makes money, no matter what. I have been looking at all rules and regulations and have found all that is needed. I collect all textiles and transport them to the company warehouse for which it gives a royalty payment every month even if I don't bring enough clothes in for e.g, just as I would be with putting bags out. But instead I have clothing banks. I just need to check that I am correct and I am allowed to place textiles banks, with there information on, etc.... on the right side of the law. It states that:- On the tra (Textile recycling assisocation) Type into google get there home page and then click on 'new code for its members'. It is a word document it shows that in 'clothing banks' it has red words which is what is mandatory by law. It does not matter if I am a member with them or not, the law is the red terms you will see it, in the document (I am not a member or nothing affiliated in any way, just using the term for reference use only).... members that operate clothing/textile collection banks must:
Other good documents you will need to look at are:- http://www.wrap.org.uk/content/textile-collection-guide This has listed documents down the side one of which is called 'guidance on removal of clothing banks' it is a pdf file and most of the best bits are listed below "It is not likely that operators will Have been able to establish a tenancy and therefore their right to be on any particular Site is likely to be on the basis of a licence to occupy. This can either be a bare licence or a contractual licence. If it can be established that bank operators are there as a contractual licensee that licence can be revoked at any time. However, if on a proper construction of the licence it is only revocable after a certain time, then it may be possible for the licensee to obtain injunctive relief. Even if on its proper Construction the licence is terminable forthwith, the licensee will be entitled to a reasonable period to remove their goods and effects. A contractual licence could arise where a bank operator pays a landowner such as a supermarket directly or where it can be shown that the operator is providing "consideration" (i.e. a service for the supermarket). It could be argued that a bank operator is providing a service to a supermarket's customers and as such are providing consideration to establish a contractual licence. That said, we are not aware of any direct legal precedent that is relevant for establishing a contractual licence. In the absence of a contractual licence then it is likely that a bank operator would have a bank on site under a bare licence. There is precedence for establishing that even where someone occupies a site as a bare licensee they are entitled to reasonable notice."
As mentioned before I did empty clothing banks but for a well known charity, (Clothes were taken to the shop) but all this finding sites/law etc. was done for me. But I did have to go to the council or say a supermarket and hand a contract say in. (A4 peice of paper) signed by both parties me the collector and site owner. Which would state that they have given me permission to be on the land etc. and to recycling the textiles etc. . . . On behalf of.... we undertake to keep the area clean and tidy etc....
But it did not say if it was a 'contractual' or 'bare' license.
Good links for required information
http://www.textile-recycling.org.uk/ (On page is a link for 'new code of practice' with 2 bullet point requirements by law for clothing banks)
Also this is the main charities act 2006 listed below for guidance
http://www.wrap.org.uk/content/textile-collection-guide (pdf files on the right hand side of the page running down the page) Important ones are 'west midlands waste authorities legal advice' and 'guidance on removal of clothing banks' Both have the requirements for my answers/law
Whether it is a bare or contractual licence will depend on the individual facts and whether the landowner has received some "consideration" for the licence agreement <This is listed in 'guidance of removal of clothing banks' Listed in summary section so the difference is licenses must depend on 'consideration' what type of license it is?
I plan to place around 10 clothing banks with permission from landowners etc... Council sites, supermarkets etc. . .People who place clothing into banks are giving it away to be recycled or reused. The clothing banks will have the correct charity/recycling company image involved on. I cannot 'source' people, to give. These clothing banks work the same as they would anywhere, such as salvation army banks etc... . Do you understand the logic, It is hard on paper. But these are just recycling banks for people to recycled clothes, and aid charity. Hopefully this will help you on the four questions. Once they have been answered and I have got all my requirements lawfully, then I require a few more quick questions then full payment and feedback will be gratefully received!!!!, thanks!
Hi. Thanks for the reply good information, but as I need specifics it would be good if you could answer some more questions regarding the points stated. Could you answer them in number format again.
1.)Is a contractual license purely were 'consideration' has been granted. i.e A payment per tonne of clothes/monthly fee or I could say 'I am bring more customers to the location'. Would both terms be considered 'consideration'.
2.)As mentioned previously I used to hand in a piece of paper which I now no would be a 'contract'. But this would of been of the 'bare' type because nothing was mentioned for payment/providing service. But it was on a supermarket car park maybe it was showing consideration by attracting customers? There was nothing in the 'contract' just stating that all health and safety, rules, law would be adhered to and the banks would be emptied frequently. This would be a bare license?
3.)I can go to a supermarket like previously, and hand in my own contract in for my own clothing banks. State that they will be recycled etc... This is a bare license?
4.)Do I need to put as a title 'Contractual' or 'bare' in any part of a 'contract'. Or mention it at all? Because wont the details of the proposed license change the outcome of the contract. Such as:-
... Both have meaning, but If it did not mentioned what type of license it is would this decide what license. If I wrote 'place clothing bank for free on site'. This would automatically mean it is a 'bare license'
5.)What happens If I say I am bring more customers to the site. Is this bare or contractual. Because even if it wasn't a contractual license. I would still be bringing more customers to site. Bare license is for purpose only this is showing consideration>? So it must be contractual??
6.)You mention contractual as a 'purpose'. But even a 'bare license' has still a purpose, for people to donate/recycle?
7.)A contractual licenses doesn't have to be on paper? But isn't this one the more 'legal' and more important?? To ...''Create legal intentions, exchanged promises etc... Is a bare licenses literally like 'spoken out of the mouth' not as official as contractual.
Do I not have to do all this with a bare license such as legal intentions etc.. Because I was probably going to hand in a bare license they give me permission to be on the land, but it would be in a contract format saying I own all the banks, emptied frequently etc..
8.)You mentioned consideration as 'value'. But I could be providing a service to aid recycling and bring more customers to site'. You use the example 100 customers a month. This would not be in the contract, because how can you get 100 customers a month? My contract would just state that 'The banks will provide more customers for the supermarket', that would be my consideration?
9.)I could have a contract saying I abide by health and safety . . ., empty the banks frequently. This would be a bare contract. It has no meaning. But I would state 'I would like to leave a clothing bank on this site, they belong to me for the purpose to help people recycled/donate. It has a purpose, but no consideration? Is it 'bare'.???
10.)Even if it was a bare license to place a textiles bank and I had a contract stating all health and safety, rules etc.. would be complied with. This this not be classed as consideration? Because the manager of the supermarket reads through the contract and signs it. Is this consideration because the manager has considered it and is reading through it and signed it. Or has the consideration got to be providing something to the supermarket.
Lastly ! What is my best license for me in my position i.e. supermarket. Would I be going to it with the intention of having a 'bare license'. On paper saying I have a free bank to help people recycle. Thank you, so much for your answers!!!! Just with wanting to make sure every single piece of information is just right. When dealing with supermarkets/land. Thank you, hopefully here from you soon!!
Thanks for the info
So If i hand a document in to the manger of a supermarket like I used to and it stated that I wish to place a clothing bank on the site. This will help the communitiny recycle and generate funds for the charity. I 'james bankerrrrr' will own the banks and will comply with all health and safety law etc. . . . The banks will be place there for indefinatly. (I can write that they are going to be there infedinatly cant I?)I dont mind having a bare license, as previously it worked fine and had no isseus. (This would be a bare license wouldnt it?)
Obtain a licence from the land owner (or appropriate site management organisation) to place a clothing textile bank at a particular named site'. You hare provided information regarding licensess etc.. But the other point which was mentioned was 'In the case of banks which are operated for the benefit of charities, contain solicitation statements that are compliant with the relevant legislation that is applicable in that particular nation of the UK where the banks are operated. Solicitation statements should indicate what the minimum amount of money per tonne collected that goes to charity is (For guidance on solicitation statements see Appendix 1).
England and Wales
In carrying out a promotional activity for a charity, charities or charitable causes, for money or other property, commercial participators will need to indicate clearly:
The full guidance can be viewed at:
Do these bullet point even apply to me? Because this is 'appendix 1' and remember the 2 bullet points which is law, state that the banks should comply with solicitation statements? docs:- All docs look back for links and description
4.)So on my clothing banks the first bullet point simply means that what charity will benefit. Thats fine I understand this point, simple picture of the logo and the charity involved/commercial collector company
5.)It is the next bullet point )Second bullet point)
which I do not understand; 'If there is more than one institution, the proportions in which the institutions are respectively to benefit'. Currently the company I will be working for gives a set figure to charity each month and states this on the charity bags. Unless it is talking about the profit the company is achiving, putting bags out etc... But there has been no display on any clothing bank I have ever seen (20+) or ANY charity bag about this. If it is this I know of one bag which states 'please ring to find out more information on drivers pay etcc.' Could I state 'To find out more information on the company and how it makes profit please ring' (Company contact number). This would be legal? Instead of me putting how much the company makes because it is to complex, aswell as nooone else does it? What about me as a contractor/investor do I write how much i am earning aswell, but no Companies/collectors does this???? Obviously I would only do this if it was requierd, unless the second bullet point means how much is to the charity? Or nothing in my case, because there are no 'institutions'?
And obviously the last bullet point is stating how much will go to charity. That is a set figure so that can be printed on the bank.
6.) Also in the 'documents previosuly mentioned'. wrap.org etc... 'West midlands waste legal advice'. It says that clothing banks action can be taken against unfair commercial practices and for acts of fraud. This might include enforcement action where the physical appearance of a ‘bring bank' container has deliberately copied that of legally compliant competitor's containers inorder to confuse textile donators and gain a share of the textiles that would otherwise have been deposited in a competitor's container'
7.)When i used to empty clothing banks say they used to be blue. So i cannot copy a direct competitor? But surely I can keep blue but change the font of the text? Or colour of the text so it looks different? I was going to put it half blue, half red this would work? There are clothing banks that use the same colour because there are that many of them
8.)Also what about clothing bins? Small wheelie bins to collect clothes in. Same information on the bin as the bank would have, but how does it work say e.g at a school? Do i need once againe a license like above or not?
Thank you for your reply using the number system again.!!
Hi. Good information on points just need a few more questions and follow ups on previous questions:-
Remember I am recycling/reusing the clothes. If you look at the beginning of our case, I state that I am going to be working for a recycling company; which currently gives out charity bags and then collects them and reuses/recycles. The recycling company pays a royalty payment i.e £4000 a month to the charity, any excess is profit. With me working for the company each kg of clothes I get £. But instead of me putting bags out I am placing clothing banks. This is my example without any names etc...
I the individual have a contract with 'English textile bankers' which states that I own several clothing banks, they belong to me etc.. They are an identical to the charity bags given out on behalf of the company. All clothing generated goes to the warehouse were I will be paid £0.10/kg. The company then sells the clothes abroad for profit and providing the charity with £4000 a month.
So back to the previous questions:-(Maybe you thought there was no charity purpose) Just to recycle the clothes. The company recycles the clothes to make payment for the charity
Re answer Question 3) . . . . . . .
Re answer question 4, Also does 'promotional activity' cover me? I am not doing promotion, just have clothing banks?
Re answer Question 5 And also add this, As previously stated I have only ever seen mentioned on 1 clothing bank 100% to charity, the others nothing else mentioned. But the other day I was at the u.k's most common bank 'Salvation army' and it quoted 'Clothing bank donated items will be sold for reuse or recycled. Of the net proceeds 50% is retained by the salvation army trading company, the other 50% is donated to' . .
So in my case what would it be? With the example used above 'English textile bankers' will donate £4000 a month to the charity.... do I have to mention anything else??. .
I don't have to write how much I will receive i.e. Me the owner of the banks/contractor?? , I have never seen any bank do this. I can see that you have to write how much goes to charity, and how much goes to the company. It is the companys responsibility to pay there staff I,e me accordingly.
Remember the company does not do percentages, we give the charity a guaranteed income as they prefer this. And remember I own the banks as a individual (This will not have to be put on the banks?, (I will be putting the recycling company's for the address etc.. but all clothing goes straight to the recycling company etc. . . The banks will look exactly like the charity bags with all the relevant health and safety instructions, relevant licenses (As you explained before) etc.. Just that I am working on behalf for the recycling company like a contractor, and the recycling company is working on behalf of the charity
Re answer 7. Also this . . .I used to empty clothing banks which were lets say 'pink'. If I wanted my bank to be pink. I couldn't do this?? Because there are pink banks out there. But it would have all different information on? Such as the recycling company's logo, charity's logo, my solicitation statement 'The recycling company will give £4000 a month to the charity etc'....
8.) What about even if I changed the text, and colour of the text say. The back/rear of the bank is still pink. If 2 clothing banks are both pink next to each other what happends? Is this still not aloud? Although the public once they a facing forwards about to place textiles in the bank would see it is different as stated above.
(There are banks out there which use the same colours, they would have to because there are only a few colours)
Thank you, nearing the end of my information :)
Questions 1) Yes, we are not a registered charity we are a ltd company and we help 3 other charities.
Questions 2) Reply back to your question 4, 'surely it will be good publicity to state who you are donating to'. Yes, as stated previously the banks will look excactly like the charity bag. Will be all pink say, have the correct charity numbers on, our recycling company image etc....
Questions 3. (Questions 3 answers will come from each bullet point below e.g 3a, 3b, 3c) Yes you are right in the fact we do not know how much we will be getting. Christmas time we will not get many clothes but the charity still gets paid ££££. You say why don't I just describe the payment as it is, the guaranteed income. Yes I will be doing this its just those 3 bullet points which were required by law:_(Which is why I do not want to get any of this wrong!)
(Would I also have to mentioned that any remainder is then sold for profit? Or would I not have to mention that.)
Question 4) This one is difficult for one. I am confused. Because you mentioned 'confusion' for the customer. But what is that? I stated previously that if 2 pink banks are beside each other is this confusion:????
"Action can be taken against unfair commercial practices and for acts of fraud. This might include enforcement action where the physical appearance of a ‘bring bank' container has deliberately copied that of legally compliant competitor's containers in order to confuse textile donators and gain a share of the textiles that would otherwise have been deposited in a competitor's container."
Even though they are both pink say, my bank will have ALL different logo,s, different charity, numbers, say but this isn't 'deliberately copying' because I have the same colour? Obviously on some sites they are different colours or there are no banks at all. I am just thinking of some sites were we have the same bank design/ colour but when facing the bank it is obviously different. Customers can tell.?????????????????? As stated the banks will look like the charitys bags. So our recycling company logo, charity logo, statements saying we give the charity ££££ and health and safety etc.. Contact numbers, charity numbers etc.. Are on it, this is different to other competitors.
Hi. I am not sure if they recycling company is
A commercial partnership or a professional fundraiser? It has 3 charities all of which get a set amount on the textiles coming in. Regardless of amount. It is a ltd company just like all commercial partners.
Professional fundraisers: In appealing on behalf of a charity,
charities or charitable cause for money or other property,
professional fundraisers will need to indicate clearly:
Question 1 .)This was taken from the docs provided (charities act 2006), I think the recycling company is a commercial partner?. Because on the tra under textiles banks (Explained previously) it has 2 terms which are required by law. One for a license for the banks and the other to show solication statements which are what the 3 bullet points listed above show, a 'commercial partnership' .
Question 2) So once againe I will review the following points feel free to add any comments each is correct/incorrect
2a)One the first bullet point on solication statements it states "which charities or charitable causes will benefit from the promotional venture".
This is easy show the charities logo along with the fundraising standards tick and there charity number. Correct, sorted??
2b)"if there is more than one institution, the proportions in which the institutions are respectively to benefit". As you stated previously the recycling company does not no how much it is going to make, so I will state that the recycling company gives ££££ a month to the chosen charity (The charity in which the main purpose of the textile bank is for, it is livered in the design etc...) Therefore that this question in now answered, as the 'institution' (being the recycling company?)does not no how much it is going to benefit/loose. However I will also write after how much we give to charity, that details on our profits and were/how the clothes are recycled/reused is available on our website or alternative ring 080034344653653 etc.. This would be better? As this gives even more clarity, and is perfectly legal? Not only is this stating the charity's amount but giving details on our profits, and how we recycled clothes etc....?
2c)"how much of the proceeds from the promotional venture will go to the charity, charities or charitable cause(s), or give as accurate an estimate as is reasonably possible in the circumstance". This is easy, as I have already mentioned. "I will put the recycling company gives ££££ to the charity ever month from the sale of the clothes". In this case it is allways guaranteed, not even an estimation.
3)Reply back to your previous question 4.
Yes that great, its clairified a lot. So even if say I have a 2 pinks banks next to each other. When the customer is looking at them, mine has all different stickers, logo's, etc... It is not classed as copying.
But what I don't get is when they state has "deliberately copied that of legally compliant competitor's containers in order to confuse textile donators and gain a share of the textiles". How do you do this then?? But how does this differ to, 2 pink textiles banks>??
Does this mean without the labels? Literally 2 pink banks that Is copying
4.)I will be putting the charities number as in solicitation statements the first bullet point states that 'which charity will benefit', so I will be putting the charities registered number to be safe etc... When I put the recycling company's logo (Although nothing states that I have to put this), should I also put there registered company number ??
Thank you very much for all your help.
This is great info, as dealing with supermarkets, councils etc.. Want to get any info 100% correct! Thanks. We are nearing the end of the questions:
(Replying back to your previous question 2b) For ease all question below go from here 2b, 2c. 2d etc..)
2b)Remember i work for the recycling company as a contractor/worker. I do not own the company. But unusually I will be OWNING the banks. For to take the textiles to the warehouse, but the charity is listed on the banks. E.g The company has allways give £5000 a month to the charity . Never more, never less, regardless of there profits etc . . You mentioned you dont no how much the company is going to give, but the company does not give a percentage of its profits etc.. It is a fixed amount every month, regardless of clothes income.
2c)Remember that whatever was on the charity bag that is given out for the charity must be correct. It has been passed by the fundraising boards and has the tick of approval and of the whole system. And all that was on the current charity bag was the reycling company logo, the charity, the chaitys number, the recycling companys adress and number. Nothing about how much is given to the company? Remember the whole point of this questions is(Second bullet point in solication statements)
"if there is more than one institution, the proportions in which the institutions are respectively to benefit". Because the company does not know how much profit or any income it will make from the textiles at any time because of the variability of the clothes coming in, an amount could not be viable? But on the salvation army's clothing banks, who are the u.k's leading clothing bank operator. They had one situated in a supermarket car park saying in small print
"Donated items will be made available for sale in salvation army trading company'snationwide chain of charity shops with the remaining donations being sold forre use or recycling. Of the net proceeds 50% is retained by Salvation Armytrading company ltd. The remaining 50% is donated to the cooperative charityetc...'This is basically the second bullet point solicitation statement. They are showing how much the 'institution' (being the trading company) will keep. As well as how much the charity will earn/benefit, which is the third bullet point law. As stated previously the company I will be placing the banks for does not give percentages, could this be viable (Below)
"Donated items will be reused/recycled of the proceeds £5000 a month will go to (Charities name) and any remainder is retained by (The recycling company's name"). This states what the clothes will be used for. It also says that after the £5000 a month paid to the charity, the recycling company retains. This could be my second bullet point in solicitation statement. Also I mention the amount going to charity so this is my 3rd bullet point in solicitation statement.?
2D)(Reply back to your pink clothing bank answer) If I wanted my bank pink, yes there is a competitor who does use pink but are only at a limited number of sites were mine will be located. They have allways used pink, and is the only bank that I have ever seen/lots of info that is pink. But this is were we keep coming full circle. "If in using the colour pink you cannot avoid the confusion if the two clothes banks were set side by side then you should not use pink as the colour". That is what I want to know, how can confusion be avoided if they were beside each other? They either can, or they cant? How can it be avoided? Obviously say they are both pink. But, they show different logo's, info on this is different? Remember "Enforcement action can be taken were the bank has deliberately copied that of a competitor?
2E)Even if I couldn't then say put them all pink. Could I put them all pink at sites were the other charity does not have them? Or would it still apply, because the public are misconstrued in thinking one is the other
2f)If then I put the banks 66% pink, 33% blue, this is ok? No one has banks like that. And you can tell they are different even when they are next to each other; would this be legally acceptable?
And wouldn't cause conflict because the bank is different, different colour (Although it still uses pink but one third is blue) Different stickers, logos, info etc..
I have also written to the charity commissioner about this and are awaiting reply. Thank you for your help with the last of the questions (just clarifying info really), full acceptance will be given within a few days :)
Nothing about proportions, you would be right about writing we give x amount and guiding people to the website etc.. But as stated we dont give a percentage its allways the set amount every month. But i will clarify that with the charitys commison.
I must have ran out of time? Because you are no longer replying?
I don't mind accepting because you have helped me a lot; but I just need some more info to finish me off.
If I accept fully, can I reply back to you. (You said you would keep the thread open?
If so for how long do I get,
Thanks, awaiting reply asap.