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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69369
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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is the spying on a private person and reporting their movements

Customer Question

is the spying on a private person and reporting their movements and activities to a third party that wants to use them in a civil court case a criminal offence. [including the false gathering of "evidence" to assist them]

The instance includes the probable disclosure of personal details to the person spying of civil court matters.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Hi.

Thank you for your question. My name is Jo and I will try to help with this.

-Could you explain your situation a little more?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I was involved in a civil case [business claim against me as sole trader] last year and lost the case.


Included then and subsequently are freqent references to "according to neighbours" various disclosures about what we are doing on a day to day basis that are used to influence the ongoing actions by a claimant 200miles away.


This is particularly distressing for my wife who is in constant FEAR of being watched and having her activities reported upon - so that she often cannot sleep, wakes up crying , and generally is in fear of actions from neighbours, some of whom already have been reported to the police for causing distress by abusive behaviour. It may noit be them but the civil courts have no jurisdiction to require the claimants to prove who they got the information from.


 


I am anxious to persue a criminal action if appropriate since the olice seem the only ones able to obtain the disclosure of who is reporting, what they have been told about our business that would encourage them to report to someone 200 miles awy.


 


I consider this a form of terrorism akind to the gestapo and need it stopped.


 


How do I do it and if possible have the perpetrators punished for causing my wife a living hell.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Ok. Thanks.

Sorry if Im missing the point but I'm not sure what they are actually doing?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


they are advising someone 200 miles away - who they have no personal relationship with - reports - including false reports - about our day to day activities - so that they [200 mls away] can use them to further their claims and cause us harm - financially and emotionally

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Who is doing this?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

That is the problem - the civil courts will not require the claimants to disclose - the only people we have are the claimants and their barrister.


 


They will not voluntarily tell us.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Ok.

But what are they actually doing that causes you offence?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

causing ongoing distress and fear about living our private lives without everything we do being reported to a "hostile" person and possibly by someone who has been the subject of repeated referrals to the police including being suspected of criminal acts

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
So, in summary, they are making reports about you to an unknown third party?

Who, in turn, is making reports to the police?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

We know who the reports are being made to:


The claimant and their barrister.


we do not wnow who is making the reports -


 


No one is making reports to the police - the reports are being used in a civil [county court] case[s] and its subsequent cases to influence the court about us.


 


We are particularly concerned about


 


1] the spying and reporting to people 200mls away [ for use in County Court actions - not criminal actions]


 


2] the disclosure to "neighbours" about private "business" matters that have been the subject of County Court actions


 


We consider these actions to be criminal and want to persue the stopping of them and if possible start some sort of action against these "gestapo" tactics

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thanks.

I'm sorry if I'm missing the point but why shouldn't these people give instructions to another person?

I understand its not pleasant but in what way do you say they are doing anything illegal?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

in what way can it be legal to subject someone to fear and intimidation, having to check vehicles every morning to see if they have been damaged, and more particulary not be able to find out who is using these "gestapo" reporting [from what will be a hostile witness] but not be able to find out who they are and have it stopped

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
I'm really sorry but there is no offence in making reports of this nature.

I understand that its not pleasant but if its just that they are passing information to another person then there is no offence in that.

It may not be right but, on the facts you have given me, its not illegal.

I'm sorry this isn't the answer you wanted but it is the position that you face and I have a duty to inform you truthfully.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need more information.

Jo
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

the situation is causing great distress, and fear for particularly my wife who was not the subject of the initial business court case but lives in "fear" - as a consquence of the actions of others.


It cannot be right to have others spying upon you and reporting to someone else and not be able to find out who is doing the reporting.


 


Without an ability to find out who is causing this we have to endure this "fear and intimidation" and have an innocent party crying in the night.


 


What happened to "the right to a private and peaceful family life "?


 


How do we find out who is doing this reporting ?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Yes, it might well be having that effect but it is not illegal.

I'm afraid unles there is an unlawful act there is no action that can be taken and no way of finding out who is the source of the reports unless, of course, they are willing to tell you voluntarily.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

is not a person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress.


 


which this certainly does

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, and there's no offence to that effect in the UK anyway.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

??? section 4A, public order act 1986 ???


 


does this not cover


 


intent to cause harassment, alarm or distress


 


??

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No. That covers a public place and it can only be committed in certain ways.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—
(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

Neither of those are happening here.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress


 


the actions were to cause just that:


 


and they have done so on someone not subject to the initial business problem.


 


What legislation covers the [cause a person harassment, alarm or distress] since this cannot be legal.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
I think I've really covered this above.

Is there anything else you wanted to know?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


I repeat what legislation covers:-


causing a person harassment, alarm or distress


- when their action do so

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
As I have said, there is no offence here.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

If you ignor the circumstances that we are advising in brief above:


 


If someone does an action that causes fear / distress / harrassment / alarm etc:


 


That causes emotional or physical harm by their actions then the laws of the UK must cover a legislation that applies.


 


What is it?


 


Surely there cannot be a carte-blanch for people to cause humilaition, degridation, and causes fear and distress without recourse.


 


What legislation covers the protection of an individual from persicution and fear and distress, such as we are enduring.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
There's no offence in that per se.

It is not a crime to cause somebody emotional distress.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

this is beyond emotional distress


 


 


what are the appropriate possible actions that we can take regarding these actions.


 


 


Are you UK based or Pennsalvania USA ????


 


Your emails advise time zone EST

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
I'm in the UK.

As I have explained above, there is action that can be taken about the fact they are making reports about you. It is something they are perfectly free to do.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


Jo,


 


I must have missed it, and cannot see anything in your replies except


 


[and no way of finding out who is the source of the reports unless, of course, they are willing to tell you voluntarily.]


 


Please explain the action that I can take.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.

I'm afraid unles there is an unlawful act there is no action that can be taken and no way of finding out who is the source of the reports unless, of course, they are willing to tell you voluntarily.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


who would have the authority to find out who is causing such "harassment, alarm or distress" ?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.

On the facts above, nobody can do that. There is no unlawful act.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


when information - untrue - is passed to another unrelated party - there must be an inducement.


I.E a payment of some kind for that information.


 


AND WHEN THAT INFORMATION IS USED TO INFLUENCE A COURT.


 


Surely there is some legal action that can be used to redress this.


 


I cannot accept that in the UK we can be subject to ongoing harrasment and distress from others without some ability to remedy it.


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
There is an offence of malicious communication in passing untrue information but you have to prove that its not true and since that doesn't seem to be accepted the police are unlikely to be interested I'm afraid,.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

the information passed was untrue and with other allegations that can be proved - this is where we are starting from.


 


The rest is the continued itteration by the same process from what - we believe to be - a hostile witness who have their own grievenaces about us.


 


What we cannot do is prove who the "spy" is.


 


We know where the information is going but not where they get it.


 


We also know that they are using that information to influence courts without any real ability to challenge it


.


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.

You can make a complaint to the police but they are not going to be interested I'm afraid.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

why would that be the case.


 


would not "human rights issues" not also apply.


 


We are entitled to a life without these "gestapo" tactics and without false information being sent about us to influence Civil Courts of this land.


 


Where can I find justice ?


What avenue do I persue?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
I can't really comment on the mertis of the law.

I'm really sorry and I wish I could say something else but I've really given you my view of this which is that there is no action that can be taken on these facts.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for your prompt answer.


 


I have to say that in view of the conintued persecution that we have experienced that I will have to persue this question elsewhere.


 


It cannot be lawful to supply false information to someone who uses it in court to discredit a person without there being some sort of offence being done.


 


I repeat "gestapo" tactics.


 


 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.


offence - ??


 


perjury in a civil case ???


 


stating that something is true when it is not - in writing to the Judge and court ??

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
I think I've really give you my view of this.

Perjury can be committed in a civil case but there's no evidence here that they've done that except your account which is not sufficient and anyway the court would need to report it. The police will not act upon you report.

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