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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 46224
Experience:  Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
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Hi.I was carrying out my job at work when I was harrased by

Customer Question

Hi.I was carrying out my job at work when I was harrased by severalfellow workers.one in particular was having a right go at me.I told him I was only doing the job my boss ordered me to do.it got heated and I suggested to him that I would meet him at our security gate and we couldtalk things over and sort out our differences.he suggested that we went to the works toilet to sort out anyanomositythat aroseduring ourargument. I went into the toilet with the intention of speaking to him on his ownas I had towork alongside him and his pals for the rest of the day. Once inside the toilet he punched me on the faceand had to be restrained by a fellow worker.as a result of this I am now going to be sacked forgross misconduct.ie fighting at work even though I never retaliated.what is my possition in this affair
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.

Ben Jones :

Hello, my name is XXXXX XXXXX it is my pleasure to assist you with your question today. How long have you worked there for?

Customer:

Twenty one month

Ben Jones :

Do you remember your exact start date as that will be relevant?

Customer:

March

Ben Jones :

Is the other person facing dismissal too?

Customer:

Yes but they haven't spoken to him as they don't know who he is.I work in shipyards and it's a big place.I'm a sub contractor and he is to with a different employer

Ben Jones :

So are you an employee of the company or do you work on a self employed basis?

Customer:

I am an employee of purl I am full time but we ate subcontracted to bae systems in govan Glasgow

Ben Jones :

is your employer taking action because of a complaint by their client BAE?

Customer:

My company are not sacking me.Nae systems are terminating my employment in their shipyard.which means I will probably be sacked by my own employer

Ben Jones :

Ok you will not have employment rights against the client BAE – they are not directly employing you, they are simply subcontracting your services and regardless of whether you were guilty or not, they have the right to remove you from their site if they wanted to. Your rights will be against your employer, with which you will have an employment contract.


 


There are circumstances when an employer may feel forced to move or even dismiss an employee because of pressure from a third party. This pressure may come from a valued customer or from another third party that has a degree of influence over the employer, such as a supplier, the landlord of their premises, etc. Such a dismissal can be deemed fair because it would amount to 'some other substantial reason' (SOSR), which is one of the potentially fair reasons for dismissal allowed under the Employment Rights Act 1996.


 


It is generally accepted that the reason behind the third party's request is irrelevant and there is no requirement on the employer to establish the truth behind the allegations. What really matters is the how important the third party's continued business is to the employer and what risks there are to that relationship if the employer does not act as per the request.


 


For example, in the case of Dobie v Burns International Security Services, Mr Dobie was a security guard working for a contractor who supplied security staff to a Council. Friction developed between a senior Council employee and Mr Dobie, with the Council demanding his removal from their site. His employer eventually dismissed him. He made a claim against his employer, however he lost with the decision being that third party pressure to dismiss can amount to a fair reason for dismissal.


 


Employers must still act reasonably when dismissing, in accordance with established employment principles and would need to undertake some form of investigation and hold a dismissal meeting. They should also consider whether there is any other alternative employment that can be offered to the employee instead of dismissing them because dismissal should only be seen as a last resort. However, in principle, such dismissals can be fair.


 


If you are dismissed, you will be able to challenge this if necessary by making a claim for unfair dismissal in the employment tribunal – you have 3 months from the date of dismissal to do so.

Customer:

Should I ask my own company if they intend to sack me? They seem to be backing up my story,as they trust me.

Ben Jones :

you may do so - if they want to they will have to take you through a formal disciplinary hearing anyway so you will know if that is an option anyway. You could try and speak to them and be honest about what happened - they may not be able to send you back to that workplace but they may have something else for you

Customer:

Thanks vendor your answers.great response.my only query is I'm being charged twice for your answers.it's only supposed to be ,£11 not £22.can u rectify this for mebefore I make payment

Ben Jones :

Can you please clarify where you saw the £11 please so I can take this further with the relevant team - the value you had selected for the query was £22, which reflected the level of advice provided, thanks

Customer:

I put down low on your reply which was £11for you answer

Ben Jones :

Low Urgency and Low Detail would likely be £11 but you had Low Urgency and Medium Detail

Ben Jones :

But I will submit your request to customer services

Customer:

Sorry Ben pressed wrong rating. I have now rectified that by pressing excellent service.have a nice day

Ben Jones :

No problem, thank you and all the best

Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 46224
Experience: Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
Ben Jones and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hi Ben, I was talkin to u last week regarding being assaulted in work and being in front of a disciplinary meeting this Wednesday.it has now come to my attention that the guy that punched me cannot be found and I am the only one that is facing being put out of a job on wed as I told my emplo that I was arguing with him.any advice for Wednesdays meeting

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Relist: Other.
Hi Ben, was wondering if I could ask you another question as things have taken another turn
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
Hi, as mentioned you are protected against unfair dismissal so the employer needs to ensure they follow a fair procedure before they take any action. You need to make sure they have investigated matters properly, and if dismissal is contemplated that there are no other positions they can place you in instead of dismissing you. As a defence you may also use provocation and expressing remorse for your actions.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Can they say they have held a reasonable inveastigation even if they can't find the other person involved. Also is my own employer responsible for finding me alternative work at another of their basis. If they sack me do I have a claim for unfair dismissalagainst them

Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
whether an investigation is reasonable will depend on what the employer can reasonably be expected to do in the circumstances - if the other person cannot be located then the employer will not be expected to start making attempts to trace them unless this is easily done. So in the circumstances a reasonable investigation can still be one where this person was not interviewed and the employer takes into account any other available evidence.

Yes it is your own employer's duty to try and find you something else that may be available with the work they have on offer, but they are not supposed to create jobs if vacancies do not exist.

If you are dismissed, then you may appeal the dismissal with the employer but after that it is an unfair dismissal claim.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Do they have to give me a reason for sacking me on Wednesday

Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
yes they do, you are entitled to receive written reasons of dismissal if it ends up in dismissal
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I was at odds when they said I had done nothing wrong,and they said they tried to get me a position somewhere else. Yet today they said I was getting sacked on Wednesday. Find it very strange. There are no witnesses whatsoever saying anything me.

Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
I cannot comment on why things have changed and the employer's reasons behind this and all will become clear at the meeting
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Ok thank you Ben.I'll let you know outcome on Wednesday

Expert:  Ben Jones replied 3 years ago.
Thanks, best of luck

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