How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask Jo C. Your Own Question

Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
12826847
Type Your Law Question Here...
Jo C. is online now

Hi, I need advise on historical allegations what evidence

Customer Question

Hi,

I need advise on historical sex allegations what evidence do police look for. Allegation relates to 2004
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Hi.

Thank you for your question. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.

How can I help with this please?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Well I have been accused of Historic Sexual allegations dating back 2002 and 2004 with 2 of my daughters. What evidence will police gather as these are old allegations


 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Well I have been accused of Historic Sexual allegations dating back 2002 and 2004 with 2 of my daughters. What evidence will police gather as these are old allegations

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thanks.

I'm not sure if your question is what you really wanted to know? I suppose you can ask follow up questions.

The police will gather whatever evidence is available. Usually that will consist of statements from the alleged victims either in S9 form or in video ABE evidence, possibly statements from anybody to whom they complained at the time and also any medical evidence that may exist. Obviously there is not likely to be forensic evidence from events so long ago. If anything consistent has been reported to social services or to the school then that may be used.

Is that all you wanted to know?

Jo
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi,


 


The last contact was in July 2013 via facebook they do not have mobile phones. When I was arrested I asked them to take my phone and computer but they declined.


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Who? The complainants?

Whats the relevance of the phone or your computer?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


The last contact with the complaints was in 2013 July via FacebookI wanted the police to take away my computer so they can see the last contact with the children.I know its historic but these children are my daughters and Ia went through CAFCASS to see my kids and the children also saw NSPCC and councillors after the break up of our marriage.


 


I have never groomed anyone or been in touch with anyone under 16 I also have not been on websites that are of sexual nature.


 


Will they go through my phone records as I can provide further evidence or are we talking about historic sex and not interested in current. They are alleging that it happened only once in 2004.


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Sorry if I'm missing the point but what would your phone records prove?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

That because the recent contact was in July 2013 and previous to that text messages were sent to the girls and to state all was fine between me and the children.


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thanks.

Its quite unlikely that the police would consider that.

The fact that there was contact doesn't mean there wasn't abuse. Children don't always avoid their abusers.

That said, its something that could be used in cross examination so actually its probably better that the Crown don't have sight of it. Thats the sort of thing that you wouldn't want a witness to be asked about until they are actually in the witness box.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


So basically they will not look at my phone records but surely they will look at the reports and please note I was away from the girls at one stage for a year yet they still wanted to maintain contact in one of the CAFCAFF reports it states


 


(1) The girls can recall the positivity and negativity with clarity and insight.


(2) The girls are mature for their age.


 


 


The girls are alleging that I raped one of them only on one occasion in 2004 the other child is stating that I sexually assaulted her only once as well. But yet I went to Turkey with them alone in 2006 nothing was said.


 


I also have twitter messages from the 19 year old one last year who asked me to call home and yet we were 100 miles away.


 


Also I know my children are decent girls and they have never had any boyfriends can a medical examination be asked to prove that she is still a virgin?


 


I have given them full disclosure now the children also had a structured life going to school at 8.30 in the morning then coming home at 15.30 then going to mosque at 17.00 till 20.00.


 


I was always at work working away from 8 to 7 Monday to Saturday in the evening and the mother was not working and she was at home always and the fact the allegation of rape took place in 2004 we just had another another child in November 2003 and the child was being breastfed and the little girl always slept with us.


 


I must also inform you that me and my ex had a confiscation order of £160000.00 and the assets were in her name and she felt very bitter and the children were aware of this and they lost one of the houses. I was asked by one the girls to give back £20,000.00 that I was awarded they felt very bitter. Also recently the mother tried to purchase the house but that fell through.


 


 


 


 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


 


 


The last contact with the complaints was in 2013 July via FacebookI wanted the police to take away my computer so they can see the last contact with the children.I know its historic but these children are my daughters and Ia went through CAFCASS to see my kids and the children also saw NSPCC and councillors after the break up of our marriage.


 


 


 


I have never groomed anyone or been in touch with anyone under 16 I also have not been on websites that are of sexual nature.


 


 


 


Will they go through my phone records as I can provide further evidence or are we talking about historic sex and not interested in current. They are alleging that it happened only once in 2004.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
I'm sorry if I'm missing the point but will your phone records prove?

If the point you are hoping to make is that she makes contact with you so that proves that you did not abuse her then I'm afraid its not a good point. Even if she phones you every day it doesn't prove that you didn't abuse her.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for the positive rating and remember that I am always available to help with your questions. For future information, please start your question with ‘FOR JO C’. You can also bookmark my profile http://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/expert-remus2004/


Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


Can you please advise what type of evidence the police will require as the False Accusations relate to 2004 and 2002 allegedly. So at least then I can try and see and sense the evidence I need to require to counter act.


 


From my understanding you stated they will not look at the current evidence ie phone records or social media etc.


 


Please note I do have the CAFCASS report plus after the breakdown of our marriage the children were referred to Councillors also the NSPCC were involved and one point the social services when one of the child took an over dose.


 


Please advise the evidence the police will look for


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Well, as I've said really.

The police will gather whatever evidence is available. Usually that will consist of statements from the alleged victims either in S9 form or in video ABE evidence, possibly statements from anybody to whom they complained at the time and also any medical evidence that may exist. Obviously there is not likely to be forensic evidence from events so long ago. If anything consistent has been reported to social services or to the school then that may be used.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


Will the police look or listen to my recent calls. Do I have to be careful to who I talk to? Will they look at my itemised my phone calls I do not want to give the prosecution and further evidence that I have for example my 3rd child being born in December 2003 and the alleged offence taking place in January 2004. Also my mother in law stayed with us for 2 months as I could not take time off from work.


 


The new baby slept with me and my ex wife due to being breastfed etc.


The baby never went out either as the mid wife was in and out.


 


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, they won't tap your calls. They need lots of authorities to do that and it won't prove anything here.

Obviously I suppose if you confessed to somebody who went and made a statement the police that you had confessed then that would be an issue!

They are not going to be interested in your recent calls.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


So what you are stating is that if I can recall in 2004 and the events around that time helpful. For example the child went to School till 3.30 then from 5 to 8 to a mosque. Also who my neighbours were at that time for example the daughter was being picked up by a neighbour as her daughter went to the same school.


Also my 3rd daughter being born in December 2003 and my mother in Law staying with us for 2 months as I never took time I worked everyday and my ex employer can confirm this. The 3rd Daughter always sleeping with us as she was breastfed. The mother never worked always at home.


So everything revolves at that time I will see and gather the evidence at that time now to the best of my ability. I love my kids I have never hurt them and never will.


But unfortunately they have suffered the most from this bitter divorce. In one of the reports the mother informed CAFCASS about the girl stating that she will kill her as she blamed her of the break up of the marriage.Finally all the councillors report NSPCC report and CAFCASS will be of a little help to me.


The child running away from home in 2008 and the police and social services being involved that also a little help I guess.


Just one final question what if the girl is a virgin can that be proved?I know my children have never had a boyfriend.


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Well, not really.

Their movements are not particularly relevant to this offence.

The allegations is that you abused them in some way I imagine. Whether or not they went to school is not going to be relevant unless, of course, it undermines their account in some way.

I think there is a medical way of proving virginity but it won't be admissible here.

The reports may be useful if they support your defence in some way. I'm not sure what your defence is?
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


The CAFCASS reports does support but I had a fall out with my eldest who stated " I am 17 now and I have plans my father expects me to cancel my plans and see him I will not and will only see him if I have time my message is I still love him though"


All other reports are all positive that they wanted overnight stays and longer stays I have 4 reports.


The NSPCC checks were done as well no negativity came out from it and the councillors report was done as the children but negativity or else CAFCASS would not have allowed contact.


I love my children always will but as a result they have suffered immensely due to this divorce. There have never been any negative feedbacks. Children only started feeling the effects after divorce their education dipped etc. What other defence can I use?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
You can make an application to force CAFCASS to hand over their records but it is not lightly allowed and if the only points that you want is that the eldest child was upset with you then it's not going to be accepted.

In any event you can probably get that point from him in cross-examination.

One option is for you to call the CAFCASS or NSPCC assessors because they really have to say that they did not see any issues given that they reported that you were safe contact but it's not a good idea. All they will say is that they did not see any issues but that does not mean none existed. I
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


No I mean that was the only negativity in the report about my eldest report. I have the CAFCASS report I have offered it to the police they will look into it anyway as I have informed them when I was interviewed.


I will let the police do their work I do not intend to ask CAFCASS anything. The CAFCASS reports can be obtained for £10.00 anyway. The CAFCASS report does state that background safety checks were made its all written. Children were asked if they were scared they said no.


My solicitor has looked at it and informed me that its all positive and hopefully nothing will come of it but if it does I have these reports and the councillors and NSPCC reports.


I am being honest and under cross examination the children will break down because one lies leads to another I am innocent in all this. I will prove my innocence thats why I gave a full disclosure.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
You need to be careful with what you do with that report. You are almost certainly under a duty not to disclose it without order of the family court.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


You are right in what you are stating that I have passed it on to my Solicitor who have read it very carefully and the fact I have mentioned it to the police in the interview they will have to look at that or else my solicitor will point that out. In the report the girls views were taken into consideration over a period of 2 years 2010 to 2012.


Also they were assessed by the person in the report and the fact that they are lying they will be cross examined. There also reports from their own councillors after the breakdown of the marriage.


I will not disclose it but I am sure my solicitors can use that in my defence and the inconsistencies in those report and what the lies they are stating now.


In these reports the mother also claimed that one of the daughters threatened to kill her as she blamed her for the breakdown of the marriage there are lots of issues surrounding her. She ran away from home the police were called in this all after the breakdown of the marriage.


I have another 2 daughters 10 and 7 so I am hoping they will be interviewed. The CAFCASS reports will be extremely useful as they do support my defence I have 4 reports and its all positive. I have also supported my children in their school work and they have admitted this in the report.


I also have current Facebook messages and twitter messages and text messages and current calls up to September 2013. but as you and my solicitor rightly said they do not prove or disapprove anything so they will not look at that. But the reports the as well as well the doctors and social services report will be there will I know be in my favour


Plus the fact they will be cross examined the truth will come out no matter what.


I do not know what else to use in my defence both the girls know each other that's another point


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Yes, they can use it but they need proper permissions. Your solicitors will know about this and should set about getting proper authority to disclose.

I imagine that the fact that they know each other probably will be useful. It depends on the case obviously but personally I would always run this type of thing on the basis of some form of collusion between them. Even if its not a direct kind of collusion. If they know each other then its unlikely that the 2nd girl did not hear about the allegations of the 1st girl before making her own. They will not both have come forward spontaneously.

However, I'm not running this case and its not a good idea to have me doing it remotely. Its really for your counsel to form a judgement.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


What else can I use can we use the medical reports as well as the girls counselling report? The girls live with each other and they are stating it happened once only to each one of them.


The eldest one is who is 19 (Sexual Assault) is stating it happened when she was 7 when the other who is 17 (Rape) states it happened once when she was 7 also in 2004. The allegations were made at the same time this year.


In cross examinations does the truth always come out? I hope it does and I hope that the police investigate the matter thoroughly.


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, in fact witnesses very rarely admit to lying. What happens in cross examination is that a lying witness can usually be smoked out. The principle of cross examination is that you ask questions faster than a false witness can think of a lie. Some people are very good liars and they are extremely devious but generally speaking a false witness will have thought of the basics of a lie but not all the extraneous detail that a truthful witness should know.

You will never get these two to admit to lies on the stand not least because they don't much fancy being charged with perverting the course of justice.

The goal is to get the jury to disbelieve them which is usually possible.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


That will be easy what they have said in the CAFCASS interviews is completely different in how they have portrayed me. I know I am innocent and the truth will come out from one of the girls there are so many inconsistencies from both of them.


 


The truth will prevail

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.

Yes, the conviction rate is not low for no reason and its not that the law is failing genuine victims.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


I feel sorry for the genuine Rape Victims and the people who have been raped or assaulted are the biggest losers. Also there are cases now of perverting the course of Justice which is sick as these womens are making false claims and the fact CPS are prosecuting without hard evidence they are prosecuting if and when they want to without any sufficient evidence.


 


The police have failed the genuine victims ie Jimmy Seville and will get worse.


 


I know in my case I have the evidence to prove against the girls. But the resources should have been spent elsewhere


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
The police didn't fail them. The reason that genuine cases are missed is that the police have to struggle to find them in amongst a huge volume of false allegations.

Resources should be spent elsewhere but the problem with that is distinguishing between genuine cases and false ones.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


For instance in my case I have all these independent evidence / report / evidence etc which I have provided to the police. The police should quickly look at that and move on quickly I am sure they have the capability to detect from expressions and analysis of who is telling the truth.


But I have felt like ending it all because of these false allegations its heartbreaking I respect and love my children always have and always will I keep counting the days to the bail date its tough I want to provide police with all my computers, mobiles and further information as I have nothing to hide.


Can you please advise what techniques police use to detect false allegations from real one and also how long their investigations take?


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Well, they don't. There's no way of knowing. Thats the problem. Resources are wasted on perjurers all the time.

Whether they will believe them or not really comes down to their credibility but there is no clear scientific test that tells a false witness from a truthful one.

Some allegations, of sexual offences especially, are literally the most ridiculous you've ever heard in your life and obviously they are disbelieved but they are not really the problem.

The problem lies with the ones that might be true.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


How long will I have to wait. I am hoping they look at all the information I hope they make a full investigation. Do you think it could go to trail? The CAFCASS report and what the girls have said at that time (2010 to 2012) was completely different to what they are saying now.


 


Also please note we also had a confiscation order of £163,000.00 in 2009 which has impacted on losing the family home for the girls. There is too much history that has impacted on the family. I have told the police this as well.


 


I just want a fair investigation that. I also feel the police / cps are biased. They are just taking cases to courts for the sake of it without looking at the evidence.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
It could go to trial. Loads of rubbish cases do.

CPS are biased but the police are not generally.

I can't really be positive about this. It is certainly right that CPS will charge in circumstances where they should not with sexual offences.

The real question anyway is whether you will be acquitted and jurors are much more sensible.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


How long is a decision taken in my case? Its just these 2 allegations that is against me. I know they will need to gather evidence and all the reports I have mentioned to the police. What length is the time period in these type of investigations. I was told to go back in 9 weeks time.


 


Do you think I will have heard something by then of the decision to prosecute me. Its like a nightmare for me and my family having to go through this ordeal and the fact its false makes it far worse.


 


What is the length of a normal investigation in these cases before I know of a decision.


 


 


 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


 


 


How long is a decision taken in my case? Its just these 2 allegations that is against me. I know they will need to gather evidence and all the reports I have mentioned to the police. What length is the time period in these type of investigations. I was told to go back in 9 weeks time.


 


 


 


Do you think I will have heard something by then of the decision to prosecute me. Its like a nightmare for me and my family having to go through this ordeal and the fact its false makes it far worse.


 


 


 


What is the length of a normal investigation in these cases before I know of a decision.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
There's no way of predicting that. Sometimes it takes months and sometimes its very quick.

Its to be hoped they have made a decision but I wouldn't take it personally if they do charge you. They charge lots of people on weak evidence and then they all get off and they wonder why.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69516
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


I do not care if they charge me as I am innocent. I just want to start defending myself as quickly as possible. I have the evidence and so do the CPS and Police.


As its historic allegations my solicitor has informed me it will be a quick decision. As the current information (Phone / Messages) are irrelevant to the investigation also my home was never searched when I was arrested. I would have expected that at least to happen.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Yes, I understand. You want a resolution of the matter.

I think it probably will be a quick decision. There are not lots of enquiries to make really.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


That is all I want a quick effective resolution if it goes to court I will defend it and the truth comes out there as one lie leads to another so in future no further allegations can also not be made I am so glad I went through the proper channels to see my children.


Just one final question I tried to log into my facebook this morning and I was informed that someone tried to log into my account through a unrecognised device could this be the police or someone else?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Its not likely to be the police.
They can get into facebook but they don't try to log on using your account.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


That is what I thought. I don't care if they try to log into it its better for me if they do at least then I have nothing to hide. Pray that the truth comes out


 


Take care and bye

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
All the best
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


What are the chances the Police can re-bail me I was interviewed on the 14th January 2014 and the bail date was 17th March 2014. As I said so far there are only 2 allegations.


 


 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo,


 


 


 


What are the chances the Police can re-bail me I was interviewed on the 14th January 2014 and the bail date was 17th March 2014. As I said so far there are only 2 allegations

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • Thank you so much for your help. Your answers were really useful and came back so quickly. Great! Maggie
< Previous | Next >
  • Thank you so much for your help. Your answers were really useful and came back so quickly. Great! Maggie
  • A quick response, a succinct and helpful answer in simple English. I believe I can now confront the counter party with confidence -- worth the 30 bucks! Rick
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C.
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex
  • Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult. GP
  • I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion. Justin
  • Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around. Esther
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Jo C.

    Jo C.

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    30316
    Over 5 years in practice
< Previous | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/EM/emus/2015-7-7_192327_bigstockportraitofconfidentfemale.64x64.jpg Jo C.'s Avatar

    Jo C.

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    30316
    Over 5 years in practice
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BE/benjones/2015-12-1_0437_ennew.64x64.jpg Ben Jones's Avatar

    Ben Jones

    UK Lawyer

    Satisfied Customers:

    11553
    Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BU/Buachaill/2012-5-25_211156_barrister5.64x64.jpg Buachaill's Avatar

    Buachaill

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    1754
    Barrister 17 years experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/JO/jojobi/2013-3-19_0265_maxlowryphoto.64x64.jpg Max Lowry's Avatar

    Max Lowry

    Advocate

    Satisfied Customers:

    894
    LLB, 10 years post qualification experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/UK/UKLawyer/2012-4-12_9849_F2.64x64.jpg UK_Lawyer's Avatar

    UK_Lawyer

    Solicitor

    Satisfied Customers:

    750
    I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/KA/Kasare/kasare.64x64.jpg Kasare's Avatar

    Kasare

    Solicitor

    Satisfied Customers:

    402
    Solicitor, 10 yrs plus experience in civil litigation, employment and family law
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/OS/osh/2015-7-7_19268_gettyimagesb.64x64.jpg Joshua's Avatar

    Joshua

    Lawyer

    Satisfied Customers:

    8199
    LL.B (Hons), Higher Prof. Dip. Law & Practice
 
 
 

Related Law Questions