Hello my name is XXXXX XXXXX I will help you with this. Please note that I am a working Solicitor and may be on and offline as I have to attend Court and meet with clients, even at weekends. As such you may not get an instant response when you reply as this is not an ‘on demand’ live service, but rest assured I will be giving your question my immediate attention upon return. There is no need to wait here, you will get an email when I reply.
Who is named as legal owner of the car please?
The legal owner of the car is the company, (business) which was a partnership and is now a sole trader, consisting only of myself.
When did you find out about this Court Order?
the complication seems to be accruing as the company, which is a a fashion label, has the title of my husbands name, as he was the original designer for the fashion label. The company name is XXXXX XXXXX but as I have explain dI am now and have been for several years a sole trader and the car is an asset of my business.
Was the loan taken AFTER he left?
When did you find out about the Court order?
at the hearing on 6.2.14, which as I explained was very badly conducted, the judge ruled for the claimant then, but the actual order arrived on Friday 21.214 but stingily 0 minutes after the order the claimants agents arrived a tmy residential address to pick up my car.
No the loan was taken when it was still a partnership.
Did you attend the hearing?
yes as a witness
For your husband?
I assume you said the car was in the Company name?
yes for my husband, but the judge refused to let me speak. yes the claimant's case is against my husband and not me.
Did you file a witness statement?
the term company car is for a limited company, but as a sole trader it is only reffered to as a business car.
Yes, I sent my witness statement to the court 3 weeks before the hearing, by post and mail
All you can do (or he can do) is appeal the decision
He needs to show:
1) there was an error in law, or
2) there was an error in Court procedure, or
3) the decision was unreasonable.
I am sorry to say you can not refuse to give the car - they can just come and take it because they have a Court order.
So you can't do that - as it would cause trouble.
You can't sue the car company as they have a valid Court order
What you should have done is applied to the Court proceedings to be added as a Defendant or Intevener.
But as it stands, you have a Court order for return of the var
Therefore ALL you can do is appeal the decision
But you can't appeal just because you dont like the outcome
You can only appeal on the grounds above
Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?
they have a court order against my husband, whom took the loan with them, they do not have a court order against me, so therefore if the car is mine, as per the documentation, they do not have a court order agisnt my car ?
But they do - its against your husband for the car. HE could end up in prison
But if they find it then they can just get it
This is why the ONLY thing you can do is appeal.
I am sorry if this is not the answer you want and certainly not the one I want to give you, but I have a duty to be honest
He is appealing, as the Judge's conduct, if the first judge adjourned the hearing as ownership of the car was not proven by the claimant, how can the second judge not ben discuss that point ?but what are my actual rights as to the car ? if it it in my possession it is surely legally mine, the debt is another question surely ?
No - its not legally yours. The Court has ordered the return of it.
Its returned because if it is used as security you NO LONGER own it
Same as a mortgage - it belongs to the bank
Also if the car is not available to them, can they force the issue with me ? my husband is not in the country at this time.
Well you are trying to avoid recovery - this will only cause problems. They can get bailiffs to enforce the Order.
If your husband is out the country, how can he appeal>
also the appeal is being lodged a the court tomorrow, how long until this appeal is granted, if not granted on what grounds can it be refused and can he then go to the High court to appeal ?
Also I have read that as an interpleader, I have an equitable interest in the goods so I can also make a claim, as a partner or spouse ?
As I said you can only appeal on 3 grounds
1) error in law
2) error in procedure
3) the decision was one which no reasonable Judge could have made
The Court will consider the appeal on the papers.
If permission to appeal is refused then you can ask for an oral hearing
If permission is refused then you have to appeal to the Court of Appeal.
You can make a claim but you are a little late to do that. You should have done that earlier as an intervener.
He is doing by mail and sending to the court. Ok in your opinion was the Judge right ? he was terse and rude and would not let me as a witness speak. Again I return to this issue, how can the car not belong to me, if I took out no loan against what is mine ? why should I as an innocent third party be penalised, can I still be an intervener in this case. Can not my husband now make an agreement to pay directly to the claimant for the loan, as it says on the order he has to return the cat or pay the money, which he would not be able to pay as a lump sum.,
I can't say as I have not heard the transcript or seen the evidence. But I do consider the appeal has prospect of success.
Its possible you could intervene but only if permission is granted
Can I clarify anything for you?
Firstly there was no clerk at the hearing, so no transcript , which was first issue I raised. How do I intervene, I run a small business and cannot afford to pay huge sums to defend this, but if you could guide me further, as to at least put a stop to the immediate action, how can permission be granted ?
All hearings are recorded. There will be a recording which will be transcribed. You need this to appeal.
Permission can be granted one of the three grounds above which I will repeat here again
1) there was an error in law
2) there was an error in procedure
3) the decision made was unreasonable
Also as this is so stressful for me, how can I protect the car if they try to pick it up again ? Can they force entry, if I do not let them in ? Can I sell the car now the Order is on the car
Ok, understand about my husbands appeal, but what should I do at this juncture to protect my rights in this case ?
You can't sell the car - you do not own it.
They have a charge on it.
He needs to seek a stay on enforcement pending the decision on appela
That is ALL that can be done at this stage
Ok, but again,the car is not proven as owned by my husband and this has not been verified by law, as in-fact it is owned by me, surely I have some rights here, under the Human Rights act ?
There is a Court Order requiring the return.
You have no rights against a private company under the human rights act
Only against a public body
Ok, but if the Order is not correct, firstly, how do you do a stay of enforcement ? He has filled out the form , appellants notice and is mailing to the court. I must myself have grounds to appeal agaisnt the Order ?
Because that is why you appeal.
You can't apply to appeal, you are not a party.
Only your husband can
There is a final order, You personally can't do anything now
You are too late
You should have applied to intervene earlier
But appeal is the ONLY way foward
If this is refused, the car has to go back
Sorry how can I be too late, if I did not know this fact ? There surely must be a way round this from my side ?
You attended Court.
The Court made a final order
Only your husband can appeal
You can't do anything at this stage
I am reffering to the appeal, i.e. The Judges decision, a public body, was penalising me as an individual under the Human rights Act, not my husband, surely I can not be penalised or at a financial loss over he's Court Order, when he is willing to pay back the Claimant monthly. Also if he's appeal is refused, how can he waste more time to enable him to gather further funds to pay the Claimant back, i.e. how far can he go wight he appeal , can it be tied up for some time ?
Yes I agree it has a prospect of appeal.
But that is the only solution. If permission/appeal is granted then you could apply to intervene
Does that help?
So at this stage, why cannot I not intervene now or if the appeal is refused, what can I do then as an intervener .
If the appeal is refused, there is nothing you can do - the case is over.
if the appeal is refused, can he take the matter to a higher court I think I need a solicitor now to act for me alone, to pursue my case individually, can I do this ?
Yes of a[[ea; of refused you can go to the Court of Appeal.
You would need to instruct a Solicitor.
haw long it normally take to get a reply from the court for the appeal is accepted or not
can i use the car?
I can't say it depends on the workload, normally a couple of weeks and yes you can use it.
Can I clarify anything?
Alex, Yes can you explain my rights as to the car ? The Order is g
I thought I had already done that?
against my husband, not me, why am I not allowed a voice in this issue, surely this is contravening my rights as a individual ? I fail to understand my position here, as you are mentioning The Order but not my rights and how I can pursue this case for my benefit to keep what is to all intents my car
The reason is this:
1) there is security on the car - therefore it is owned by the company that has security
2) proceedings were issued
3) you did not intervene at that stage
4) the matter went to court
5) the judge made a final order
6) because it is a final order you can not intervene now
7) because it is a final order all that can happen is that the order is appealed
This is all because the order is final. The case is closed unless an appeal is made and won
Ok clear, but as a lay person I do not know before the Court hearing that I could intervene, that is why I went to the hearing in the first place to confirm my ownership of the car as per my witness statement, but the Judge would not allow me to speak at the hearing, thus my case was derailed by the Judge, as surely if I had spoken a the Hearing to put my case for ownership the ownership would have been in question ( comments of first Judge ) I was at that stage an intervener ? Can I not now write this to the Court, as part of the appeal ? Or do I put that issue to the Court in my letter of Complaint, as per the procedure inconsistencies ? I need to do something now, I do not want to wait for the appeal to be refused, and then I am left with nothing, this is my financial loss and i have not been heard. Again the loan was never signed or agreed by me, so how can my car be by law a property of the claimant ? I really fail to see this issue ? Help !
You can't write to the Court because you are not named.
It makes no difference
Only your husband can appeal on the grounds I have set out before
However this can be a ground for him to appeal.
But this is the process you sadly must follow
I understand the loan was never signed by you.
But there is a final order for the return of the car.
Therefore the Court can only consider an appeal by your husband with the fact you never signed the loan as an appealable point
This is how matters must progress
Does this help?
Yes, thanks, XXXXX XXXXX are you in this appeal ? i am so stressed by this and from myself as I I have done nothing, also once the appeal is granted, can I Then intervene ? And finally so I am on top of this how do I intervene ? Should I tell the claimants solicitor I am intervening now ? So as to worry them a bit ? Also I am going to Italy and intend to take my car can I do this ?
I can't say for sure because as I said above I haven't seen all the evidence or read the transcript. But I do think there is a prospect of an appeal.
As for taking the car abroad, I can't advise on international law such as Italy as I do not know their legal system
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thank you Alex, i will leave a excellent feedback, can i contact you in the future regarding this matter?