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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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I have a Lease van that is defect and doesnt drive, not down

Resolved Question:

I have a Lease van that is defect and doesn't drive, not down to fare ware and tare!
the van manufacture LDV Van went under in 2008, the lease company(financier) say its my responsibility, I did put right at my own cost, but still continued to break down making it unreliable for deliveries so I took it off the road and declared SORN....
Who is responsible for the vehicle? as they say the asset it belongs to them!
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.

Jo C. :

Hi. Thank you for your question. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this. Are they trying to take it off you?

Customer:

No....but this is what I want as it is no good to me, this started in March 2012, end of lease was Aug 31 2012.

Customer:

All monthly rental payments was made up to this date. even though the van didn't work, they took me to county court over the frailer to pay a final balloon payment. they argued the agreement say they are not responsible for the van even though it belongs to them, due to the manufacture going completely out of business in 2008, I would of thought the financier would be held responsible as they own it?

Customer:

What I need to really know, is the financier (Lombard) held responsible in anyway for a defected vehicle?

Jo C. :

Are the financer the same company as the seller? Probably not but just for clarity?

Jo C. :

If not, do they guarantee the state of the car?

Customer:

in their terms they are saying they are not resposible as they didn't provide the vehicle(van)but are still the owners, my argument is if i hired a vehichle and it became undrivable they would repair it or provide me with a similer type as this is a service i am paying for!they also changed my monthly rental payments on a fix term finace agreement!

Jo C. :

Ok. So could you tell me whether the financer the same company as the seller? Probably not but just for clarity?




If not, do they guarantee the state of the car?



Customer:

no....the finance is Lombard, the van sales was 'vans direct '....

Customer:

according to their terms their not resposible for anything...main thing am after if the manufature has gone out of business completly who is resposible for the vehicle? ie sale of goods act,services act...that sort of thing...someone must be resposible for somthing!

Jo C. :

Well, thats a problem I'm afraid.

Jo C. :

The sale of goods act does apply but it applies to the seller not the financer.

Jo C. :

The manufacturer is liable for negligence potentially although not every fault amounts to negligence.

Jo C. :

Mostly these claims are brought against the seller.

Jo C. :

This is a lease vehicle so it should be of a certain quality during the lease but if the lease ended and you just didn't pay the baloon payment then they can claim that from you I'm afraid.

Jo C. :

The condition of the car at the very end of the lease is not a ground to escape the baloon payment I'm afraid.

Jo C. :

I'm afraid that with leases you are often responsible for maintainance.

Customer:

The point of sale told me I pay the balloon keep the vehicle or give back!

Customer:

the fixed term finance agreement, monthly rental payments were changed mid term! so wouldn't this be a breach of contract?............also the claiments solicitor hasn't got a complete understanding of the case, as solicitors like to keep it brief and simple,1. unfortunately the claim form claims I bourght the vehicle, when clearly its a lease. 2.the solicitors witness statement is not asking for a balloon payment they are asking for payments that have already been made.....

Customer:

the judge on the day ask me if I could prove payments have been made, I then presented him with lombards statements, at this point the claimant solicitor dropped his pen....the judge browsed over them, then handed them back saying I can only use evidence that's layed before him, even though he asked me for proof....I was stund as this would of won the case....on closing I asked about an appeal...he refused...saying I will have to go through the circuit judge...I asked about the vehicle he said it was a different matter...

Customer:

so you can imagine I'm really disappointed in the civil justice system....two many hand shakes behind closed doors....

Jo C. : I will opt out to see if anybody else has different views on the point but Im afraid that is my view of this.
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.
Hello,

It seems the professional has left this conversation. This happens occasionally, and it's usually because the professional thinks that someone else might be a better match for your question. I've been working hard to find a new professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're OK with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Nicola
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


yes please continue...as it a question I need the answer to, as the internet cant...cheers

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 3 years ago.

Hello,

We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Hello my name is XXXXX XXXXX I will help you with this. Please note that I am a working Solicitor and may be on and offline as I have to attend Court and meet with clients, even at weekends. As such you may not get an instant response when you reply as this is not an ‘on demand’ live service, but rest assured I will be giving your question my immediate attention upon return. There is no need to wait here, you will get an email when I reply.

I see the expert has opted out - do you still need help?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

yes please.

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Did you counter claim with the County Court matter?

What do the terms say regarding who is liable for faults please?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.


I did counter claim for storage and repairs..agreement basically say their not resposible as they didn't provide the van! Just the fiancier...

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
What did the Judge say about repairs? What happened to that?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.


the judge didn't seem interested, i pointed out the actual invoice from a ldv/daf garage(cause the van was a ldv van) it stated the faults that were wrong and what they did to repair it at a cost over £700+ the garage told me it was not fare ware and tare, but unfortunately ldv van went under in 2008, so no claim against them could be reactified by the manufature..this was in my witness statment as evidence, all the judge was interested in was the agreement.

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
When was the hearing?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


the hearing was 14 Feb 2014. Last day now for appeal!

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
Ok - in that case then you have a limited time to appeal the decision.

If you raised a counter claim and this was dismissed there is nothing you can do apart from appeal.

You have 21 days in which to appeal.

You need to complete Form N161

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n161-eng.pdf

But you can ONLY appeal at this stage.

I am sorry if this not necessarily the answer you want or the one I want to give you, but I have a duty to be honest.

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

Alex

Customer: replied 3 years ago.


thanks Alex, I already new all that, and Im in the process of an apeal....the main question I was really after was about the vehicle, they are the finance company and owner, Im a leasee,customer, they should be held resposible somewhere in the eqation as they are the service providers! They where ok taking my money over five years then when somthing goes wrong they just don't want to know...what Im after is somesort of ACT / quote that would be able to use as a legal basis in my argumemt.....

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
You need to check the wording. But if you lease a vehicle, generally UNLESS the agreement states otherwise you are responsible for the repairs and condition of it.

But you need to check the wording of the lease. This is a contract law issue - nothing else.

The wording is very important.

Does that help?

Alex

Customer: replied 3 years ago.


yes the contract terms are very unfair as a consumer, so it looks like I will going down the unfair contracts act...as they are saying its a unregulated lease...in letters..but in the terms it relates to a contract hire...very confusing and unclear...and if they are saying they are not resposible for the vehicle in anyway this would deem it as an unfair contract! But I still have statotary rights... So they should of put right what was wrong as a service...going to take some studying on this....thanks Alex....any last input before I leave you all alone?

Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.
I would agree, but sadly you are a little late to do anything.

You could have argued the terms were unfair and had an argument about that, but an appeal is not to introduce new arguments, it is simply a review of the decision below.

I am sorry its not better news.

Alex

Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
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Experience: Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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