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Alice H
Alice H, Solicitor/Partner
Category: Law
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Experience:  Partner in national law firm
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I have 9 points on my licence and currently awaiting court

Resolved Question:

I have 9 points on my licence and currently awaiting court hearing for Speeding 35 in a 30 zone.

6 points were given for no insurance whilst driving my mums car, even though i had my insurance for my car , i made the mistake of driving my mums car and thought my insurance would cover hers as mine was fully comp and i was covered to drive any other car 3rd party,

How ever this wasn't the case as i was a new driver and i did not know that. therefore my licence got revoked and i had to take my driving test again with a new licence under the new drivers act/revocation.

Before i got revoked i received a letter from the HM court stating "You are still remained to drive until you hear further notice from us about your revocation from the DVLA for then you must stop driving when you receive this notice"

So i continued driving, after 4 days i got stopped by the police for a licence revocation and that i was not entitled to drive !. They put 3 points on my licence and took my car even though i showed them the letter from the HM Tribunal.

They said "i had to sort the dispute with the DVLA but their systems show that my licence was revoked" but DVLA never sent me a reminder when i called the DVLA the lady said that no letter was sent.

AFTER MY REVOCATION I THEN TOOK MY driving TEST and theory and got a new licence with the 6 and 3 points transferred on the new licence.


And last month i got caught doing 35 in a 30 zone.. i was given the option to do a speed awareness course without getting points but i fell ill on my day and went into hospital which i have documentation to prove (hospital letters) and because of my non attendance for the awareness course , i then received a letter from the Thames valley police to pay for the fine and take a further 3 points. Or Move this case to the courts where i can give mitigating circumstances.

I decided to to go court to do mitigating circumstances because if i accepted the fine that would be 12 points in total (a ban) and i cannot have that happen as im a full time student that drives to uni and a carer to my disabled sister that i drive to on a regular basis, she sustained brain injury due to a car accident also.

I feel that i have been so hard done by especially with the revocation points that i got was not fair , i never thought to challenge it because i have been so stressed with university i also have prove of that tribunal letter.

What im scared now is that i have to either plead.

Guilty

or

Not Guilty << And i dunno whats gonna happen. Im so scared that i will get a criminal record if they convict me and that will effect my prospects of getting a job in the future. Please what should i do in court i have the option to attend or not attend plus all my doctors evidence and my statement that would be read out in court.

What would happen im really scared this is first time i have ever been Magistrates court.

Please Help anyone.

Im 23 from the United Kingdom full time UK Student.


To cut it short.


6 points - no insurance = 2011
Letter from hm tribunal to continue to drive until further notices from DVLA confirmation of revocation to return licence

Continued to drive got stopped by police
3 points given for revocation even though i never got a dvla letter


speeding camera caught me doing 35 in a 30 zone : missed driving awareness course that was offered due to hospital admission and stress.
Thames valley police then sent me another letter to pay the fine and accepts another 3 points.

I did not accept 3 points or fine and rather to go court.

Now im worried for court i have the documentation because i don't know if i will get banned or convicted or what is the worse that can happen ? or best thing that could happen in this situation ?

What can i do in my mitigating circumstances to show the magistrate court that i am so sorry i really don't want a criminal record or my licence to be banned. Please help.

Thank you and sorry for the long essay.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Hi.

Thank you for your question. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.

What would you like to know about this?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Ive just wrote everything above ? What are my chances of conviction and what can i do for the court to try get out of this in the best result ,. I.e. no ban , or anything ? ..


 


what can you advise me seeing as your a lawyer and in a scenario to support me to get the best result


 


 


I will put my question again below .


 


I have 9 points on my licence and currently awaiting court hearing for Speeding 35 in a 30 zone.

6 points were given for no insurance whilst driving my mums car, even though i had my insurance for my car , i made the mistake of driving my mums car and thought my insurance would cover hers as mine was fully comp and i was covered to drive any other car 3rd party,

How ever this wasn't the case as i was a new driver and i did not know that. therefore my licence got revoked and i had to take my driving test again with a new licence under the new drivers act/revocation.

Before i got revoked i received a letter from the HM court stating "You are still remained to drive until you hear further notice from us about your revocation from the DVLA for then you must stop driving when you receive this notice"

So i continued driving, after 4 days i got stopped by the police for a licence revocation and that i was not entitled to drive !. They put 3 points on my licence and took my car even though i showed them the letter from the HM Tribunal.

They said "i had to sort the dispute with the DVLA but their systems show that my licence was revoked" but DVLA never sent me a reminder when i called the DVLA the lady said that no letter was sent.

AFTER MY REVOCATION I THEN TOOK MY driving TEST and theory and got a new licence with the 6 and 3 points transferred on the new licence.


And last month i got caught doing 35 in a 30 zone.. i was given the option to do a speed awareness course without getting points but i fell ill on my day and went into hospital which i have documentation to prove (hospital letters) and because of my non attendance for the awareness course , i then received a letter from the Thames valley police to pay for the fine and take a further 3 points. Or Move this case to the courts where i can give mitigating circumstances.

I decided to to go court to do mitigating circumstances because if i accepted the fine that would be 12 points in total (a ban) and i cannot have that happen as im a full time student that drives to uni and a carer to my disabled sister that i drive to on a regular basis, she sustained brain injury due to a car accident also.

I feel that i have been so hard done by especially with the revocation points that i got was not fair , i never thought to challenge it because i have been so stressed with university i also have prove of that tribunal letter.

What im scared now is that i have to either plead.

Guilty

or

Not Guilty << And i dunno whats gonna happen. Im so scared that i will get a criminal record if they convict me and that will effect my prospects of getting a job in the future. Please what should i do in court i have the option to attend or not attend plus all my doctors evidence and my statement that would be read out in court.

What would happen im really scared this is first time i have ever been Magistrates court.

Please Help anyone.

Im 23 from the United Kingdom full time UK Student.


To cut it short.


6 points - no insurance = 2011
Letter from hm tribunal to continue to drive until further notices from DVLA confirmation of revocation to return licence

Continued to drive got stopped by police
3 points given for revocation even though i never got a dvla letter


speeding camera caught me doing 35 in a 30 zone : missed driving awareness course that was offered due to hospital admission and stress.
Thames valley police then sent me another letter to pay the fine and accepts another 3 points.

I did not accept 3 points or fine and rather to go court.

Now im worried for court i have the documentation because i don't know if i will get banned or convicted or what is the worse that can happen ? or best thing that could happen in this situation ?

What can i do in my mitigating circumstances to show the magistrate court that i am so sorry i really don't want a criminal record or my licence to be banned. Please help.

Thank you and sorry for the long essay.


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
So, in short, you are a totter ?Can you deny speeding last month?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

No i cannot deny speeding because i did do 35 miles an hour in a 30 zone. they have sent me court documentation and evidence from the Thames valley cameras showing my car and some kind of digital speed reader. I can insert the image if you would so you can see the documentation if that would help you ?


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, thats fine. Thats all I need to know. You are summonsed for totting.

What will be the impact of being banned? Just a brief summary will be fine. Please don't put yourself to detail.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I will not be able to travel to university to study as i commute 4 days a week, Neither will i be able to take my mother to see my sister in the nursing home as she has troubles with one to one care and my mum gets worried so i take her 3 times a week to see my sister in the evening.


 


My father is a citizen who is disabled and i am his carer so at times during the week i need to be at his beck and call to get things for him like shopping and transport him to and from his hospital appointments.


 


and i am an only child so i would be very much effected if i got banned driving.


 


Could i also mention that i chose to take this court because i need to plea with them that i cannot be banned if i get another 3 points from this speeding. I had the option to pay a fine and 3 points which would then take me to court anyway because that would total to 12 points i assume, But so far i am on 9 .


 


And me taking this to court to plea with them in relation to this speeding which give me another 3 points which i am trying to prevent.


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Why won't you be able to travel there?

Why can;t you use public transport?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

where to university ? because i live in hertfordshire and my university is in surrey which in 1 hour and half away . And public transportation is very expensive around £30 a day return ticket. £150 a week for university travels plus the delays in the public transportation which would cost me and my attendance missing lectures as i have 9am lecture starts.


 


Plus my sisters nursing home is in ESSEX sawbridgeworth village where theres no train station near there i would have to take a taxi which is 25 minutes away and my dad and mum are divorced , my dad lives in london.


 


 


So , SURREY, ESSEX, LONDON travelling between these 3 places with public transport would could me alot of money atleast £600 a week and i dont have that money and to be honest that effort would make a person so tired that i just couldnt cope travelling to all these places would stress me alot especially with university pressure.


 


I have evidence for all of this btw.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Ok. That is a problem I'm afraid.

Is there anything else that you would be prevented from doing? This does not amount to exceptional hardship so far.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

How is my education my life and disabled sister not relevant enough ??

 

I WILL BE DISMISSED FROM MY COURSE AND UNIVERSITY ? IF I DONT SHOW ATTENDANCE TO THE UNIVERSITY ? that is in there rules and regulations . ?? isn't that exceptional hardship, that i could lose my place at university ?

 

what else do i need to state in court for them not ban me or to believe me.

 

You give me examples ? because ive seen alot of cases and even resulted to calling reporters who work at the daily mail and they even confirmed to me that ..... you read this its a father who has been allowed to drive to keep his daughter in private school to take her for her travels. ..

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573592/Father-allowed-driving-16-points-licence-daughter-private-school.html

 

this guy did 73 in a 60 zone. i have only done 5 miles over the speed limit ! right how will the court not see my situation as a mitigating circumstances. i have not been summoned to go to court for totting up .. I CHOSE TO i didnt have to go court i could of just paid the fine and got 3 points but that would of just took me to court anyway. .

 

i mean my first 3 points were the fault of the DVLA they confirmed to that they did not send me a letter confirming my revocation doesnt that mean for something ?? i got a letter saying i was still entitled to drive by the hm tribunal , then i got stopped by the police and they gave me 3 points !! .. i mean what about that.

 

this speeding was 00:30 midnight on a week end i mean blimey next im going to the roads to check if they had any signs of speed incase i missed it , because i dont recall ever seeing signs or anything but the police evidence say there was.

 

 

P.S. I ALSO HAD THE option to do a speed awareness course and not get points. but i missed it and was in hospital which i have prove of as well.

 

 

I WILL BE DISMISSED FROM MY COURSE AND UNIVERSITY ? IF I DONT SHOW ATTENDANCE TO THE UNIVERSITY ? that is in there rules and regulations . ?? isn't that exceptional hardship, that i could lose my place at university ?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for the information and the time.

I am sorry but I cannot give you good news then. I’m afraid you are in difficulty here.

I'm very sorry but you don't have a challenge to this.

You are a totter. That renders you liable to a ban of 6 months.

You do not have an exceptional hardship challenge. You are just describing inconvenience. You can get everywhere that you need to go by public transport and taxis. You just prefer to drive for convenience and costs reasons. That is not exceptional hardship.

There are lots of cases on this point. Exceptional hardship would possibly apply if there was no way you could get to a certain place without driving. That is not your position.

Of course, you will be dismissed if you don't go to University. The issue is not that you must attend. The issue is how you do so and you are just choosing to drive.

This comes down to great personal inconvenience but not exceptional hardship.

I'm sorry this isn't the answer you wanted but it is the position that you face and I have a duty to inform you truthfully.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need more information.

Jo
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

it doesnt really make sense though that if i went to the awareness course ? then i wouldnt be in court and id only have 9 points. but i was in hospital . so how does that option turn out into one that i may face a ban now . its a joke to be honest. how can the court consider public travel that could cost me £1000 a week ? from where i live. THE HIGHEST of professions dont make that regular so how am i as a university student ? ..


 


if you check the case on the Daily mail the guy taking his daughter to private school ? how does that work ..the link i sent you how does that work.


 


Ok fine will i get a criminal record and what about the fault of the HM Tribunal sending me a letter to continue to drive and the dvla not confirming my revocation ? how about that would that be taken into consideration ?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
The offer of the speed awareness was a mistake. It would have been withdrawn. You are not eligible as you have 9 points on your licence.

The issue of the letter from the HM Tribunal and the DVLA is a non issue. You are a totter I'm afraid.

The case you mention in the Daily Mail has no relevance and is probably misreported.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

how can the court consider public travel that could cost me £1000 a week ? from where i live. THE HIGHEST of professions dont make that regular so how am i as a university student ? .. <<<< how about this .

 

 

how was the offer for speed awareness a mistake ? where have you got that information for. Ive got AA documentation confirming that Thames valley police have offered me this and my account and password XXXXX appointment being book. And i even sent them my licence and counter part to the police they saw my 9 points. and they offered me a speed awarness because i only did 5 miles over the speed limit i have been driving for 6 years.

 

How is the HM tribunal and DVLA not an issue its a big issue that wasnt my fault and i got given points because of misleading information and letters that i got from HM Tribunal and the DVLA not confirmation my revocation.

 

 

And the DAILY Mail being mis reported i called the reporter herself yesterday and she confirmed the story to me. So seriously where are you getting your assumptions from .

 

COULD you please answer about the criminal record part please. ?

 

and please answer the other questions ive said i would like to know why you have come up with these assumptions

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thanks but I have given you my answer and I can see that you find it displeasing so I will be opting out.

All the best.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Relist: Inaccurate answer.
This expert is not a lawyer im sorry but her answers have not been justified and she states half the information i have provided is fault especially the term of exceptional hardship which i have seen much more less worse examples then mine. she has not helped and i no longer want her to provide neither will i pay her.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Relist: Inaccurate answer.
Expert:  Alice H replied 2 years ago.
My name isXXXXX and I'm happy to help with your question today.

Do you still need help with this problem?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

If you dont mind alex i would really much appreciate it. Im sure you can see also the details above . Would really appreciate your intake thank you

Expert:  Alice H replied 2 years ago.
No problem. I'm happy to give you an opinion on this.

I've seen your comments about University. Is there anything else in your life that would be affected by a driving ban? By the way, in which town do you live and where is the University campus?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I live in st albans hertfordshire.


 


and my university is in guildford surrey.


 


Yes taking my mother to see my sister in nursing home in essex sawbridgeworth. this is a must due many review meetings my mum has at the nursing home in relation to my sisters 1 to 1 care 24hr that is being approved by the courts and court of protection. i am responsible for taking my mum to these meetings plus me being my sisters brother i have to be there also.


 


And looking after my disabled father i am considered his carer by the west minister council and disability living allowance in london. My duties are to transport him to and from hospital appointments which are regular. if he doesn't attend them appointment then his health is effected.


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Alice H replied 2 years ago.
OK. Thanks for the additional information.

Unfortunately you are now in a position where you will collect 12 penalty points and there is an obligation on the court to disqualify. The disqualification can only be avoided if you can persuade the court that you will suffer exceptional (rather than ordinary) hardship.

You have to satisfy the court that the grounds exist. You cannot argue that the offences are not serious nor will you be able to raise the reasons about the speed awareness course or the issue with DVLA. All the court is interested in at this stage is whether the hardship you've outlined will be exceptional.

There is some guidance on this topic but essentially, whether you will suffer exceptional hardship is a matter of fact for the court to decide. No precise guidance is available but generally courts are difficult to persuade. However, if you are able to obtain reports/letters confirming the situations you've mentioned then you stand a chance of success albeit a small one.

If the court decides that exceptional hardship doesn't exist then you will be disqualified and this is usually for 6 months.

My view is that you have nothing to lose by arguing your case. Worst case scenario the fine and court costs might be a little higher, hut compared to the additional costs involved in travelling etc you may decide this is a small price to pay. Also if you obtain all the documents yourself you could instruct a good solicitor to argue the case for you - the cost is likely to be around £350 - £500 plus VAT as a fixed fee for one hearing.

Hope this helps.

Alex


Alice H, Solicitor/Partner
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 2847
Experience: Partner in national law firm
Alice H and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks alex i really do appreciate that reply. that is all the information that i needed in 1 answer so i thank you for that.

 

I have a few more questions though about the cost ? is that cost including a solicitor because i was going to seek free legal advice and representation by the court duty solicitor at the magistrates ?

 

that would be free right

 

also would i get a criminal record for this ?

 

Im just waiting for the court to get back to me on that in reference to the duty court solicitor. i do have the court papers if you wish to see them if that can give you a better picture id be happy to send them to you so you know everything that is going on encase i have missed anything.

 

also there is a plea of mitigation mentioned in my forms << if they approved this would this be considered as exceptional hardship or is is "plea of mitigation" totally something different ?

 

Expert:  Alice H replied 2 years ago.
No problem.

You wont be able to use the duty solicitor I'm afraid as this is non-imprisonable.

The duty solicitor can only deal with offences which carry a prison sentence - which speeding does not.

Motoring offences are criminal offences and dealt with by a criminal court. Generally, however, they do not appear on a DBS (criminal record) check and the endorsements simply remain on a person's driving record.

Alex
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

The plea of mitigation << if they approved this would this be considered as exceptional hardship or is is "plea of mitigation" totally something different ?


 


and yes your right i read it wrong about the duty solicitor.


 


So far:


 


1: i have my evidence from university confirming the days i travel and attend university , my address and confirmation documents to state that a non attendance would receive an automatic dismissal from university.


 


 


2: I have disability living allowance and westminister council letters confirming my fathers health and confirmation that im his carer and person that transports him to and from hospital, Doctors and hospital letters.


 


 


3: i have hospital letters from the neurologist that reviews my sister and can confirm her accident and brain damage and letters from my mothers solicitor that i take my mum to and from the nursing home for reviews for my sister. and another letter to explain the brief history of the accident my sister had and how it has effected our family


 


4: copies of the tribunal letter that i received that stated that i remain to drive until i hear further notices from dvla, and Another letter from the dvla confirming that they did not send me further notices to confirm my revocation. which caused me to get the 3 points. and to retake my test again .


 


 


5: Letter from AAdrivetech for my speed awareness course confirmation date and another letter from my GP doctor that confirmed that i was very ill and hospital administration during that period. < if i went to this then i would of not got points and would not be in this situation.


 


 



This is all the evidence i have Alex ? honestly what do you recon my chances are based on your experience ? and do you think should get a solicitor or do you think i can represent my self in magistrates court ? honestly what you think, good or bad i don't mind i just want to prepare myself.


 


 

Expert:  Alice H replied 2 years ago.
A plea in mitigation is your argument to reduce the sentence and can often be submitted in writing.

Exceptional hardship is a very different form of argument and usually you will have to attend in person; the court will not deal with the matter in absence.

1. It's not your failure to attend University that is the exceptional hardship but the addedprohibitive cost involved in travelling from St Albans to Guildford by train;

2. This will help. How about a letter from your father also?

3. This will help. How about a further letter from your mother?

4. & 5. These are side issues.

I think a combination of the University and healthcare issues puts you in a good position to argue your case. But as I said courts are difficult to persuade and in all honesty this will be an uphill struggle. I do think your chances will improve if the case is argued by a solicitor who knows the law.

I would offer my services but unfortunately we cannot accept imstructions via this site :o(

Alex
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

is there no way you could provide with some contact details so i could use your services if i go to court ? upload a link with my details so you could contact me ?

 

and i will get the letter from dad and mom too. to be honest i have not told them bit scared but i will. it is usually good to turn up support to magistrates or would it be ok if i went by myself ?

 

and yes if you could just let me know how i could seek out to your services please with some details if i end up choosing a solicitor to represent me.

 

also how do you mean :

 

It's not your failure to attend University that is the exceptional hardship but the added prohibitive cost involved in travelling from St Albans to Guildford by train; ?

 

What you mean by failure and prohibitive. So would this situation help me in court or wouldn't it ? this wouldn't be considered as hardship especially if i got dismissed from university ? ?

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Are you still here alex ?

Expert:  Alice H replied 2 years ago.
Yes, I'm here.

But unfortunately I cannot accept you as a client because of the site rules that I've agreed.

You will have to go to another solicitor - the Law Society will be able to give you some details if you call them on 0207 242 1222.

Or try: www.levenes.co.uk

Alex
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

ok i will check that thanks for the information alex.


 


Is it ok if you could answer the other questions that i put in relation to what you said about : failure and prohibitive.


 


and i also asked a separate on my account if you could that also and then that will be it from as i dont wanna hassel you anymore.


 


you've been very helpful.


 


 


Thanks :)

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hello are you still here if you are not avaliable then please let me know as i really only have 3 weeks to gather all the information i can before my court due date, i thank you again for your help.

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