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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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I HAVE A QUESTION TO ASK ABOUT COUNTY COURT CONFUSING JUDGEMENT.

Resolved Question:

I HAVE A QUESTION TO ASK ABOUT COUNTY COURT CONFUSING JUDGEMENT. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE COST OF YOUR ANSWER...
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ash replied 3 years ago.

Alex Watts :

Hello my name is XXXXX XXXXX I will help you with this. Please note that I am a working Solicitor and may be on and offline as I have to attend Court and meet with clients, even at weekends. As such you may not get an instant response when you reply, but rest assured I will be giving your question my immediate attention upon return You do not need to wait here as you will get an email when I reply.


 

Alex Watts :

What is it you would like to know about the County Court Judgment please?

Customer:

My wife was sued in the county court by the management company of the group of flats claiming approximately £7000.00 because my wife did not pay them the service charges for 3 years.. My wife could not receive the court summons in time due to mail problems and when we learnt about the claim it was already late and the court ordered my wife to pay the money to the claimant. This was a default judgement and I applied to the court to set the previous judgement orders aside and re-hear the case because my wife had authentic reasons for not paying to the management company. The court, in its next hearing , set the previous judgement aside and the case hearing was re-started. But in the meantime the solicitor of the claimant sent a letter to my wife's mortgagee bank that they should pay on behalf of my wife an amount of nearly £7000.00 ( referring to the bank the judgement orders of the county court) or otherwise the management company will re-occupy the flat. So this bank saw their interest into danger and they quickly paid the claimed money to the claimant. It is notable that the claimant did not refund that amount to the bank when the county court set the previous judgement aside after our representation. So they are still holding the amount. Now the court has delivered the judgement recently and it is worded exactly as below:

Customer:

jUDGEMENT ORDER: "CLAIM BE DISMISSED. THE DEFENDENT PAY THE COSTS OF £ 3200.00"

Customer:

Upon receiving this judgement I asked the solicitor of the claimant to pay back the bank all the amount he received previously but he denied to pay and he says that the judgement is delivered against me, and it is my wife who should pay the cost as written in the court order (amount £ 3200.00).

Alex Watts :

Is the mortgage from the bank in both names?

Customer:

No, it's only in the name of my wife. I am acting as a representative of my wife into the court. So when I use the word "I" it means my wife's representative in this case.

Alex Watts :

The defendant name on the claim, is that you or your wife? I understood it to be your wife?

Customer:

yes, the defendant is my wife, and I am acting as her rep.

Alex Watts :

Are you on Court record as acting?

Alex Watts :

I dont understand when you say that the Solicitor refuses and 'says the Judgment is delivered against you'?

Customer:

My wife is not very conversant in English language and I am helping her.

Alex Watts :

Ok - but on what basis does the Solicitor say the Judgment is against you?

Alex Watts :

As I understand it and correct me if I am wrong £7000 paid by bank, CCJ got for £3200 and therefore £3800 due to a refund?

Customer:

Yes, he says I do not understand this judgement. I should seek a solicitor's advice. Perhaps he is deriving the result from the judgement order because the judge has put the burden of coswts all upon my wife.

Alex Watts :

But I still dont understand - how is the Solicitor saying the Judgment is against you when you are not named as Defendant?

Customer:

Sorry, when I say he always a names my wife when he saysv it is against you. He knows my wife is not writing anything. It is me writing on behalf of my wife.

Customer:

So when he says anything it is actually my wife addressed.

Alex Watts :

If the Judgment debt was for £3200 and you have paid £7000 via the bank, then you are entitled to £3800 back, assuming there are no other arreaars

Alex Watts :

You are not entitled to the £7000 back.

Alex Watts :

But just the difference.

Alex Watts :

But in any event that payment should be forwarded to the BANK to credit BACK to your account.

Alex Watts :

Does that answer the question for you?

Customer:

No he was paid by my wife's mortgagee an amount of £ 7000.00 for the money his cloient claimed at that time on account of un-paid service charges for 3 years. but now he wants £ 3200.00 as the cost of legal expenswes.

Alex Watts :

But the CCJ was that in relation to the SAME debt?

Customer:

The debt was collected by them already from the bank on behalf of my wife. Now he wants legal expenses of £ 3200.00 as a cost of case. The court order says my wife (the defendant) pay this cost.

Alex Watts :

I see.

Alex Watts :

So the debt of £7000 has been paid

Alex Watts :

And you and them agree this?

Customer:

To me it is not clear why the judge ordered that the defendant pay the cost while she dismissed the claimant's claim.

Alex Watts :

OK - if the debt was £7000 and that has been paid, you can forget that

Alex Watts :

Where a claim is brought, a side can ask for costs.

Alex Watts :

This is in addition to the debt claimed

Alex Watts :

Therefore if the claim was paid but the other side are seeking £3200 in costs, then these are payable

Alex Watts :

This is because the Judge has ordered costs

Alex Watts :

So in theory its £7000 for the debt PLUS £3200 in legal costs making a total of £10,200

Alex Watts :

If £7000 has been paid by the bank then the costs are £3200 as orderd

Alex Watts :

ordered

Customer:

So which claim the judge has dismisswed...???

Alex Watts :

The arrears claim

Alex Watts :

He has dismissed it because the £7000 has been paid by the bank

Alex Watts :

BUT - there was a legal cost in bringing proceedings which is £3200 which is payable

Alex Watts :

I am sorry if this is not the answer you want and certainly not the one I want to give you, but I have a duty to be honest

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

Customer:

If that claim has been dismissed the claimant has no right to keep the money taken from the bank.

Alex Watts :

Yes they can - if it is paid

Alex Watts :

If I bring a claim against you for £10,000 and before we get to trial its paid

Alex Watts :

Technically the claim has been dismissed because it has been paid

Alex Watts :

The Judge can not order you to pay £10,000 if it has been paid

Alex Watts :

The claim is dismissed and just costs are payable

Alex Watts :

If you owed the £7000 then this has been paid

Alex Watts :

If there was no claim the Solicitor would NOT have got costs

Alex Watts :

But he did.

Alex Watts :

This means there must have been a claim and it was paid

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything else?

Customer:

The judge set aside the previous order and the case was started from square one. Which means, the claimant had no right to keep the money which they received from the bank. Do you see my point....???

Customer:

Setting the order aside means we are back to start the case afresh.

Alex Watts :

But the Judge did not order that the money be returned.

Alex Watts :

If you owed the arrears then it was payable.

Alex Watts :

Because you were in arrears there were costs because they had to issue proceedings.

Alex Watts :

You can't expect to have money owing in arrears returned sadly.

Alex Watts :

If it was a debt then it was payable.

Customer:

No, the amount was not payable unless judge dismisses our defence points.

Alex Watts :

No - you do not understand the process.

Alex Watts :

I assume you did not counter claim.

Alex Watts :

Therefore there would only be a claim from the claimant against the defendant.

Alex Watts :

If there was no claim whatsover the Court would NOT have ordered costs against you

Alex Watts :

The Court did award costs against you.

Alex Watts :

The rule is the losing party pays the other sides costs

Alex Watts :

Even though the claim was dismissed because it had been paid - you lost

Alex Watts :

You are ordered to pay costs - this means you lost.

Customer:

Yes, we had no counter claim. The money was not my wife's right. It was to be returned not to my wife but the bank needed it back.

Alex Watts :

The Judge awarded costs against you - this means you lost.

Alex Watts :

Regardless of whether or not the Judgment debt had already been paid.

Alex Watts :

I am sorry but this is what the Civil Procedure Rules say

Alex Watts :

Rule 44.2

Customer:

BUT THE JUDGE DISMISSED THE CLAIMANT'S CLAIM. WHICH MEANS CLAIMANT WAS AT FAULT.

Alex Watts :

(a) the general rule is that the unsuccessful party will be ordered to pay the costs of the successful party

Alex Watts :

If that was the case then the Judge would NOT have ordered costs AGAINST you

Alex Watts :

If the other party LOST then costs would NOT have been awarded against you

Alex Watts :

I am very sorry but these are the Court rules

Alex Watts :

If you lose you pay costs

Alex Watts :

The fact you were awarded to pay costs means that you lost

Alex Watts :

You can appeal the decision by all means but I would advise you not to

Alex Watts :

I think the decision is clear, costs against you = you lost

Alex Watts :

You can appeal on the basis the Judge was wrong, but you will need to seek permission to appeal

Alex Watts :

You would need to complete a form for this which is at:

Alex Watts :

http://www.thecustodyminefield.com/CourtForms/n161.pdf

Alex Watts :

Form N161

Alex Watts :

You can't apply to set aside because there has been a hearing - it must be an appeal which you need permission

Customer:

This is confusing. Why nthe judge made a decision against the claimant on one side, and on the other dside she passed the costs to be paid by the defendant. To me logic does not work.

Alex Watts :

But that is the Court Order. You have costs AGAINST you.

Alex Watts :

You can only appeal against this by completing form

Alex Watts :

http://www.thecustodyminefield.com/CourtForms/n161.pdf

Alex Watts :

You need to ask permission to appeal.

Alex Watts :

If this is refused on paper you can ask for an oral hearing

Alex Watts :

If this is refused then you can only appeal to the Court of appeal.

Alex Watts :

But if you think the decision is wrong, this is what you must do

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

Customer:

Logically the decision makes no sense to me. Can I make an application for re-hearing....??

Alex Watts :

No - it must be an appeal

Alex Watts :

If you attended you can't ask for a rehearing - it HAS to be an appeal

Customer:

I WAS LEGAL REP OF MY WIFE. ON THE LAST HEARING I APPLIED TO THE JUDGE VTO POSTPONE THE HEARING BECAUSE I WAS SUFFERING FROM STROKE. THE JUDGE VDISMISSED MY APPLICATION AND CONTINUED THE HEARING. MYWIFE WAS SITTING THERE IN THE COURT ASKING THE JUDGE TO POSTPONE THE HEARING BECAUSE SHE WAS UNABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH AND ARGUE THE CASE.

Alex Watts :

Yes.

Alex Watts :

But you can ONLY appeal

Alex Watts :

There was a hearing.

Alex Watts :

If the decision was made on paper you could ask for a re-hearing

Alex Watts :

But you attended so it MUST be an appeal

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything else for you about the question?

Customer:

/

Customer:

I STILL NEED TO GET CLARIFICATION WHAT CLAIM WAS DISMISSED BY THE JUDGE....???

Customer:

PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION, ALEX.

Alex Watts :

Because it looks like the bank paid

Alex Watts :

If there was as a debt and it is paid - the claim technically goes as it is satisfied (so dismissed) but they are still entitled to costs

Alex Watts :

That is why

Customer:

IF THE BANK PAID THE CLAIMANT SHOULD HAVE WITHDRAWN THE CLAIM

Alex Watts :

No

Alex Watts :

Because they are entitled to seek their costs from the Court

Alex Watts :

Which they did,

Alex Watts :

In the sum of £3,200

Alex Watts :

Without that Court Order they could not have gotten cost

Customer:

OKJ ALEX. THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR ANSWERS. I WILL FILL UP THE RATING NOW IN YOUR FAVOUR.

Alex Watts :

Thank you. I wish you all the best with this

Alex Watts :

If this answers your question could I invite you leave feedback on my service which I hope has been excellent today, if you need more information or help then please click reply.


Please remember that I am always happy to help if you have future questions, even if I am in Court I can normally respond within a few hours. For future information, please start them with ‘For Alex W’.


 


Please bookmark my profile if you wish for future help: http://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/expert-alexwatts/

Customer:

BYE NOW.

Alex Watts :

Bye

Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience: Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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