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Clare
Clare, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 33325
Experience:  I have been a solicitor in High Street Practice since 1985 with a wide general experience.
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I have been in a dispute over a property with my previous girlfriend/

Customer Question

I have been in a dispute over a property with my previous girlfriend/ partner which I had a joint tenancy with her!!! money for the purchase and cost of renovation work as property was a disused farm house/ Oast was borrowed in part from my farther and remaining money was from savings I had previously transferred from a the sale of our previous home we shared that I had solely by taking time out of my career while continuing paying for all mortgage and associated cost in total we owned 3 properties which each was renovated and paid for by me and help from my farther over a 10 year period renovated by myself and my farther with a very small input from my then partner both financially, time and effort in the renovation and I had put a total of 120,000 in savings in my partners name and kept the remaining amount from a total of 375,000 before the purchase of the last property . we trusted as a family as my partner and I had planned a family so trust seemed to count?? But our mistake was obvious maybe ticking something that we had an understanding it meant money going into purchase was my farther's included my partner at the time she was well aware she was being trusted and the money leant by my farther would be returned when a mortgage could be acquire .what I didn't realise but do obviously now but a discussion was had with a cony ancient solicitor it was made clear my farther money wasn't being reflected but we trusted but what both of us didn't realise is every subsequent penny spent after that on the property was also become part of this joint tenancy blank cheque it feels not reflective of people decisions in reality without them realising thinking the aren't married Well this caused so much pressure trying to find agreement that my farther took a decision to pay 160,000 to my partner with out my full concent and knowledge even though it had become clear that this was as much as it would take to release my farther's money which has been achieved by transfer of deed of this current now home of mine being in my sole ownership not my partners she obviously has right to some money but when you've already help your partner financially while working a full time career between al this that too has been spent and roughly was twice that of my partners not even including the 1000s of hours and 2 1/2 year out of my career doing all this and renovating homes we owned it was a hobby I like DIY. her savings grew by only 40,000 but when you already just given away effectively putting 120,000 from another renovation by me and my farther this to increase her previously agreed 120,000 even though this money was earned again by myself but in a relationship you try to be fair and generous at the same time??
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Thank you for your question.
My name is Clare
I will do my best to help you but I need some further information first.
This is clearly something that you feel strongly about but I am not entirely sure what it is you would like to know - could you clarify your question please
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The problem maybe to hard for me to explain but if I've been put in a position that I have to pay me farther back the 160000 when I didn't actually agree I have been left no choices here I feel about the money held by my partner I I as she refused to agree to anything unless she had an amount she agreed with even though the money came mostly from me which is why our money before this purchase I suppose what I'm basically saying am I correct in thinking there is no argument when a deed is held as joint tent ants even though shares put in are miles different?
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
I am sorry i ams till uncertain as to what has actually happened - can you clarify the actual process please
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I have lived with my previous partner both of us worked my salary was approximately twice my partners and I have been quite happy to support her as her finances wher much lower than mine and during our relation ship we bought 3 homes which I renovated ith my farther's help financially and time doing the work together I have converted a farmhouse which I took off a yarr and a half from my career doing will still supporting my self and my partner in the same or very similar way as my partners salary was about 15000 and just to give an idea the work I completed on the second house took its value from 360000 to 670000 and after sale of this house we had had some trouble in our relationship it was openly discussed that if we didn't work out I wasn't willing to give half away and part of the reason was because money had been leant to me that became inheritance as my gran farther died and my farther passed on unofficial money to both myself and my brother after my gran farther died so the money after sale of this house was split 120,000 in saving I had put into Karin name from the total money and I had the remainder so a tala for me then of 255000 but money wasn't given as claimed it was spot into £60000 amounts which is the amount insured in one account in one name this will probably confuse so ignore but we had this split each after completing this house I continued back at work for another 2 year and I'd found another farm house so my partners money 120000 'which was really from me most of this but it was in her name so it's hers i suppose even though it had come out of my account from money from my salary and proceeds from my work on the house so this then lead to a final purchase we were planning a family so alls well?. And we trusted her she knew the purchase and cost of this renovations was being helped again by my farther financially we tried to get a self build mortgage but could so my farther agreed to help fund to a strange where we could get a standard mortgage and pay him back but instead we broke up and she refused to start with to acknowledge my farther's money and the money leant previous which became inheritance un officially probably but my fathers total sum of input by that stage including money from his father came to about 400,000 and my partner used this fact to get a larger share than I d after money leant was removed which now includes the inheritance in the total which I'm sure will be left as inheritance in the end but at the moment this has caused a lot of trouble
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry doesn't help I'm slightly dyslexic my spelling
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi did my response make sense or is it too muddled
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi just waiting for a little while otherwise is it possible to contact you tomorrow
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi sorry I did wait for a reply and noticed this morning I didn't get a reply
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
HI
My apologies for the delay
i am afraid it is a little muddled - but that does not mean we can't work it through
I can see that you and your ex partner bought a property together for renovation and part of the money was borrowed from your father
I think there was also a Declaration of Trust
There has clearly now been a dispute although I am not sure what that is
How much is the house worth how much is outstanding on the mortgage and how much is owed to your father?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Ok no mortgage sorry I reread my message and my spelling is not the best and I'm upset a lot but the simplest way I can say is my farther leant money here on each of the 3 properties so in the end as the figures for collectively leant and needing repaying is 425,000 plus 160,000 less the final agreed inheritance of previous property which was leant in a similar way again money from that input which was informally agreed would become just inheritance to me which was given to him around the same time we had finished second but in answer to your specific question the house was put final property up for sale to get a value when Karin decided to go home to holland but price offer for the house at that time was 725,000 my total money and was agreed with estate agent as an offer she would accept this started with her expecting half of all this forgetting I owed him at that point was then 425000 some of this money that he asked to be return was form a 3 properties he wanted none of his money going to Karin which is fair I think?? I today owe me dad £ 625000 ish as I have continued with his help to finish this house which has taken me the last 2 years to finish my relationship with my father is not great but we'll be fine and current approximated value today must be similar to next door which is currently up for sale at £1,300,000 the reason he paid was it was the only option being left to us and for me after relationship break up dealing with well what can only be described as the fall out from my partner after she having miscarriage and this financial pressure and difficulty between my farther and I and continuing with renovation seem the only real option but I ended with quite bad mental health problems because of stuff and I've had 3 episodes 2 of which I've had care in a local physiatrist hospital for only a weeks at each point so to say it's been tough well I'm still here so.. But I find the fact my farther's input which was done in good faith agreed between use once home was completed we could then get mortgage and I would have returned to work while finishing that was the plan but with having all this money held in a joint tenancy deed which we have been advised it not straight forward this has been an exercise of damage management which has frankly be a disaster ?.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry rereading messages to make sure they are as clear as poss. Final sale price ( property vaue) at break up point was 725,000 with 425,000 to pay back and 300,000 split so 140,000 me and 160,000 to her the 425,000 obviously has some inheritance money which I'm sure my father will stick to so my partner even though she had absolutely nothing to do with this last house apart from this 120,000 which if she was honest is still a lot from money from me but ok say I now walked away with 160,000 where as if she was honest and this was just down to finically input time and effort10% from property work and 1/3 of the other money as most of the time our salaries were quite different as well as it all in this if this was actually down to financial input effort and time it would be as I has been agreed. I feel anyway ??
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry again I meant wouldn't have been agreed to and not would!! Sorry spelling??
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi Matt
I think it will be better if we deal with this in smaller chunks
I think I am correct in saying that you never had mortgages.
Instead your father (who is still alive?) lent you a total of £425,000 over the course of your property owning career with your partner?
Is that right.
If so what is the problem with this being paid back?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
my full time job was as a design engineer working 8 years full time during this period I then invested all my earning into this and my input for the rest of this living cost mortgages bills and roughly this is she paid 1/3 and I paid 2/3 of all living and mortgage costs when put together and that was paid for from my salary from my career and hers but the property stuff was with our own homes and borrowed money to fund some of the cost and mortgages together for the first and second had mortgages which I paid for solely after paying half living cost,property work was me and my farther not my partner. only the last property was funded solely by our money and my fathers and I have no problem with my farther with paying that's not the point it the fact that me and my father have been squeezed to give what is over half of the remaining pot what was left after removing my farther's contributions when I've done all this work and paid a lot for her from my salary as explained but 160,000 was the figure she wished for otherwise she wouldn't release any of my farther's money refusing to sign the deed solely into my name which to me feels wrong she was trusted with my farther's money she new the agreement yet she refused to recognise this to extract more of a share from this pot of money as deed was joint tenants mean my farther money he felt was at risk trust has been broken by my partner her when she knew this was my farther money but legally because the deed was signed joint tenants his money legally is not shown and she could have taken this money which was my fathers if I'm correct this is the advice from my farther's solicitor have I missed something my point a bit my fault I'm sure it hard to explain it's the fact we have been forced to pay my x partner this amount when it should have been far less my share has shrunk because of it when I'm doing all this work it was not my career this was done on my Weekends and evenings and taking time out from my career i took 1 year and 3 months off work to convert our second home I then returned to my career while I looked for another project for me to do but as I've mentioned my career was designing products running a team of engineers it took almost 2 years after selling second home when I started this 3rd and final home with a larger percentage of the remaining pot of money once loans had been removed that has now been reversed and our pot as in just money to be shared by my x partner and I excluding my fathers her share has increased from 120,000 to 160,000 which if honest this 120,000 was not agreed to be just given it was put in savings accounts and split in 60,000 amounts an amount a bank covers per person or per account is 60,000 for insures against bank closures thats why this figure is 120,000 two lots of 60,000 and arbitrary when if she was honest and I was ruthless and stripped out from this 120,000 which is from me my efforts and the input from her was not even close to be able to say that's mine she didn't involve herself with this project work it was an inconvenience I suppose but when you've done none of the work how much should you get she was not involved with renovation work she worked at a recruitment company but she has acted as if it is or was hers the money after sale of second property the shares between my partner I has flipped around she has more than I have from when I started last house after we agreed the money would not be shared evenly after trouble around the end of selling second home and the original 120,000 she claims is her earning is not in the first place I had spread money as mentioned not giving and again what was her input not a lot not earned by her this 120,000 in savings before this 3 rd and final house and the share of our pot of money has been reversed by pressurising my father with his money.. Hope that makes a little more sense
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry again I must read what I write properly the share of money was agreed after sale of second home to be split unevenly to reflect these facts input both mine and hers but not specific at all not easy when your trying to fix a relationship to turn around and be ruthless but main point split of pot just mine hand hers has been reversed by my partner so she has actually more from my efforts and earns than I do once my farther's money is removed which is inclusive of inheritance/ loan
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi Matt
Short paragraphs remember
Are you saying that at some point a Declaration of Trust was signed?
What did it say?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
No declaration I'm say that between my partner and I we discussed after sale of second home that she had expressed she wasn't happy and wished to leave at one stage it should me then that if she wished to leave the money between use would not be shared equally we had a civilised and fair conversion together and I'd agreed she has a share for sure so we discussed our inputs up to that stage and my inheritance I wished not to share and it was mainly because I'd paid as I've said so total at that stage was 375000 and I agreed I was comfortable for me to put £120,000 in her named and we had resolved our relationship and decided to plan a family so I felt secure but not I writing
Final house again we all seemed ok fairness was there between us and and trust too we were having a family so I was completely comfortable and all this the went back in to final property with a loan agreed with my farther of 200,000 when we bought this last property rather than a mortgage
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I have to ask what is a declaration of trust I expect as it says but what does it involve
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
What do you think you and your partner agreed about the ownership of the last house?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Well last house when we bought the money going into purchase cost total with stamp duty was 445,000 made up of 120,000 Karin 155,000 from me and 170,000 from my farther into purchase leaving me with the remaining saving from split at 100,000 left in savings in my name from previous house . We were asked at purchase as conveyance solicitor mentioned that she could see money was from my farther going into purchase I discussed this with my farther we thought about it and he felt with him named on deed it showed a lack of trust and it was all fine before no problems he was aware of the situation I had had with my partner at second home but he knew what was being planned with family between me and my partner and it had already take us a year and a half already by then so our thoughts were well if the worst happens we can show his payment into this she'd have no rights to this and we were only thinking about purchase price and were having a family so just seem odd if you can understand,what we did not realise or at lease I didn't and nor did he we never thought or talked about it thinking every sum spent after purchase is consumed by deed or is it?? and even any extra money we both though of it as a mortgage to be far wrong idea maybe but dad's money in purchase similar input me and Karin into purchase and I had money I thought then not included not realising that money spent after that just seems consumed instead by deed being held as joint tenancy
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Ok
so what you are saying is that your father then gave you a further loan to increase his debt to £425,000?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
This 425,00 is approximately this and its the total my farther added up from transfers he made over all 3 property but it was approx first property 20,000 to allow me and my partner to buy the and 20- 25000 help renovation costs second home was 100,000 and it's this figure 100,000 which was then inheritance from my grandfather rest is the last house loan was agreed at 200,000 but in the end we'd spent about 130,000 on renovation costs so total loan in the end was 230,000 for last house
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Figures are missing 50,000 I think total I've just written is I think 375 so its more probably than I'm estimating on each home but figures added up with transfers when I went through with my farther looking at his account to mine as he went through it all to check transferee at the time while trying to resolve this
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Did you not pay him back when the other houses were sold?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
No money was left in from first house as second house we couldn't afford to buy so he added to this amount and leant money to help out at the end as i had run out of money to be able to complete and again partner aware of the amounts being leant and it was agreed end of second house to pay back but this money I kept as inheritance from my grandfather but this has not been formally done so money I kept in savings similar again with 3rd and this money was the largest by far the largest amounts and was a loan to replace the mortgage we couldn't get.
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
So when the second house was sold you owed your father £100,000.
However he was due to pay you £100,000 from an inheritance so in fact you were all square
How much did you borrow for the third house?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
his total was higher than 100,000 more towards 150,000 at the end of second property he's grandfather left inheritance of about 300,000 and he'd decided to split this between me him and my brother but that's as far as it went and my farther comment to me was he had this money but didn't need it so basically I have this money and it's there to help you if you need it but 1/3 each so it was fair with my brother and he has told me now this money is still part of his estate but it is still to come to me he just took it into his money as he felt it had come from him.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Third house all this money 375,000 plus a further loan from my farther at the start of 200,000 and more money was given when needed but the total exact I can get but these figures are close to the amounts
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Dealing just with the last house - how much did your father lend you for that in total
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
£ 250,000 I'd estimate His total I'm estimating to be 150,000 after second home which would make his total leant on third house the remainder so that works out at 275,000 but I will add these figure are being worked out on the spot for me a bit like trying to work backward from my memory at this time and the 425,000 was the total worked out from his bank account as we tried back tracking through property costs and link with records from building costs and can get exact figures if required but the final property amount leant is was more like 250,000 other money's are again close but not exact so
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Total I gave you was total and break up total today for everything 160,000 425000 includes inheritance in this figure but approximately total now 650,000 -700,000 as he continued to help me to get this property finished and I'm now living here finishing it and it will then have to be sold is the plan or rented and I have no problems with this my farther's helped a hell of a lot but money will be return most likely through sale and I have yet to discuss this with my farther
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
What I have issue with is this large sum of money which was agreed as a loan on final house was used as leverage against me through my farther vulnerability or perceived??to have a situation were money we agreed was not to be shared equally is now not just split equal but reversed in her favour
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
This is what bothers me if I take out money that was my father my amount which was discussed and agreed and it was easy then she knew I'd just increase our capital by 180,000 and the inheritance money was being discussed so we chatted about it and my share at that point was 155,000 is what i work out by removing what I though was a value then of my fathers of 120,000 but it was actually more than that but say my total was around 155,000 my partners 120,000 which was money from second project really but know today 155/120 split in my favour is now 140/160' in hers??
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
HI
How much is your ex asking for?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
She has already been paid
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
160,000
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
So from the sale proceeds of £725,000 your ex received £160,000 is that correct?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yes
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
And you received the balance
You are now negotiating with your father how much he should have?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
No my issue here is I was put under so much pressure to agree to this from both my farther as he was very worried and obviously my ex partner was well aware of this and it has been a mess very personal and central to my problems was I just couldn't get how for 2 1/2 year you try for a child only to get there and my partner suffered to for sure so it's been very hard and frankly well I was put of 24 hr watch at the hospital which lasted a week and payment was made I'm told by my parents because they felt squeezed by my ex partner and I understand this it's been very difficult she refused to talk for about any of this for almost 8 months and I ended up very ill and when I was so ill and really just felt I had no control or say to be honest and when I think back over all this and this is just honest if you've already been very generous as a partner agreeing to handing over 120,000 when this itself is a lot from you but I had so much trouble with my mental health I was in care at a private psychiatric hospital and my parent by then had had so much to deal with by then so I can understand but I was not happy with handing a further 40,000 over when my partner had not helped more than a few days and as I've mention 120,000 was me being very generous already
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Must add this so you understand this My farther has the same feelings that I do about this from his perspective though and he had little choice he felt and I know he felt that way it was what we had been talking about but I felt as it wasn't getting resolved fairly we should go back to his solicitor but I was very ill and he'd seen enough
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I supposed the question I'm asking is is it fair and this may not be from a legal stand but is it fair for someone to be fully aware of an agreement between me and my farther and her too where a sum of money is agreed as a loan on the third property all open to both my parents as my mum was involved with agreeing so much money which is actual this time going into their pension money being such a large sum but to be then used as leverage to result in a complete what if feel a reversal of the share for each from just our pot of money when the rest is either my farther's or inheritance from my gran farther
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
I am sorry - from what you have said she went into the house with £120,000 and came out with £160,000 is that correct?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yes

Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
And you gave your father £425,000?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The money is still held within this house and the money between my father and I has yet to be talked through and he has said that the money returned would be less what was discussed in inheritance which is 100,000 the original 20,000 this all started with was also given to my brother so I expect we will work it out something like of that amount my farther's a very fair person and tried to stay neutral in this but it wasn't easy so I'm not worried about resolving this with my father I'm meeting him at the end of the months to discuss this but it has caused a lot of problems.
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Is the property now held in your sole name?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yes
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
And you may in fact have to pay your father less than £425,000 back?
Does the £425,000 include the £160,000 he paid your ex?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The 425,000 was the total which included the money which had been discussed at 100,000 so the figure would be 325,000 but this included money he gave to both my brother and I to enable us both to buy own first home which is 20,000 so total I expect from this and the inheritance money would then bring the figure to 325,000 and I will talk to my farther at the end of the months about all of this so we now from each other what will be agreed. But the 160,000 he paid to my ex has to be paid on top making total £485,00 his has then leant me further money to finish which is being sorted out and being paid back and added to £485,000
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
How long ago was the transfer?
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Approximately it must have been this time last year
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Then I am afraid that there is no action that you can now take to recover the money from your ex.
she transferred the property to you in return for this sum and I am afraid that whatever your regrets now the money is lost.
Of course you can use this in your negotiations with your father should you wish to reduce the amount you pay him
I am sorry not to give you better news - please ask if you need further details
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
May I ask For anymore detail to how you came to this decision for me I just can't see how it would be considered fair that an agreement has been made, and it was the way the money was understood wrongly by my farther as he was miss lead by being told the figure she had before was an amount of 150,000 and it wasn't it was 120,000 I must add the reason it went up to 160,000 was because I had bought myself a car and she felt this should be reflected by be paid a further 10,000 and this was her arguement, I was too ill myself to have any really input and surely you can understand when I've been in a relationship where I have supported the other paid two thirds of all our house bill do all this property work on my own generously give away 120,000 and now it's even more??what is it from a legal perspective to make this acceptable when clearly someone has agreed figures with my farther which are not what had previously been agreed between us
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
I appreciate how you feel about this but when you both signed the TR1 you acknowledged that you were receiving her share of the property in exchange for £160,000
There is now no way that you can legally go behind this
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Even though it is quite clear to me today and this is an honest answer to you that I was in not in an sort mentally fit state to be making decisions like this and again if the two psychiatrist I saw on my arrival ant hospital would agree,I knew i had filled out a tax form and another that I had signed and that from what your saying must have been a tr1 form
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
I am sorry but even given that it is not likely that a court would set this aside
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry this is the circumstances in which payment was made I was admitted on Friday and put on 24 hr observation with someone sitting by your door to make sure your safe under the instruction of a clinical psychiatrist and have now clue who you are and that week probably the following Monday a transfer is made of 160,000 that's all ok.
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
That is a matter for you to discuss with your father who organised this
I am sorry but the court is not going to set the Transfer aside
C;are
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
My farther's comments which are probably advices by his solicitor but I would have to recover money from my farther and him for my ex partner
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I expect the answer you have given me would then become my fathers I have advices my farther that I am taking this no further but I am right in think my farther would have the same problem as me. Who also would do that after someone leant you all this money but this has been caused by a conveyancing process which has failed and I'm not the first when will the law realise that people do not appreciate the difference between joint tenant and tenant in common and sorry for the language but shit how can a situation be allowed to occur I certainly was not made aware at the purchase that all money's spent after would become part of this deed it doesn't work it a problem and for me to find out after 1 year the reason we were having so much trouble was because another new partner got involved and the consequences to my family have been immense yet I write off really 100,000 when I've lost it all already wow life sucks
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
The problem is that you did not protect your investment from the very beginning and agree what would happen if you separated.
Sadly many people do not
Had the Transfer not already happened then there MIGHT have been scope for negotiation - although I am not sure that the result would have been considerably different
Clare
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I have already agreed to this mainly because it wouldn't be fair to my father but can a complain somewhere I'm not going to take this any further but if we were thinking that all my farther's money put in after purchase would be seen the same as the money that went into the purchase I can assure you I wouldn't have agreed,we felt comfortable because we though just about the purchase of 430,000 in our minds when evaluating the risk of this that is what has caused this problem and it's frankly has ruined 2 years of all our lives yet it just will continue the rest is because we basically then we're then left get hammered by someone very upset already well a lot of difficultly
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thanks for your help though at least I know know I'm shafted and move on hey but thanks
Expert:  Clare replied 2 years ago.
Hi
I am sorry - I do wish the news could have been better
Clare

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