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LondonlawyerJ, Advocate
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 775
Experience:  Solicitor with over 15 years experience.
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Hello, my friend had cared for her mother for over two years

Customer Question

Hello, my friend had cared for her mother for over two years at her mothers house as her mother had dementia.
Her motehr died in september 2013 and since then she has stayed living at her mothers paying rent for use and occupation of the property.
She had to keep another tenacy going as her youngst daughter had lost her fatehr to a murder in Jamica in 2012. And it was stressful for the child to se her grand ma fzailing and dying.
My friend was paid as carer, and the person who did teh paying from the local social service knew (but now denies) that my friend was acutally living with her mother as the mum need 24 hour care. My friend was paifd for something like three hours a day per work week.
My friend has now recieved a posssson order giving date a court 30th May 2014.
How can we manage this in order that the possession order is refused by the court?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  LondonlawyerJ replied 2 years ago.

LondonlawyerJ :

Hello I am a solicitor with over 15 years experience. I will try to help you with this.

LondonlawyerJ :

The property with the possession hearing coming up is the property that your friend lived in with her mother and still occupies? Who is the landlord?

LondonlawyerJ :

Is it a social landlord?

JACUSTOMER-61knc00l- :

Hello i am using a mobile phone its a bit slow.

JACUSTOMER-61knc00l- :

The property with teh possession order is where late mother died and my friend was caring for her there. There are strong emotional and family ties and my friedn wants to keep living there, she is happy to give up the other tenacy but has not done so to avoid being made intentionally homeless.

JACUSTOMER-61knc00l- :

The land lord is a local council housing assciation i.e. name of borough homes.

LondonlawyerJ :

Do you know what sort of tenancy agreement your friend's mother had. Ho long had she been there? (this may help me work out the tenancy type). Whether it is a council house or a housing association one may be significant. Your friend lived at this address but had a flat which she paid for somewhere else but didn't live there? Can you explain a it more about that. It might be important.

LondonlawyerJ :

Can you also clarify the landlord is seeking a possession order and has a court hearing to try and get one on 30th May?

JACUSTOMER-61knc00l- : Hi ive not seen the letter will do tomorrow. My friends text said they where seeking a repossein. She said it mentioned court on 30 may.
JACUSTOMER-61knc00l- : Sorry ididnt see full question. Wil reply full tomorrow.with what letter says
JACUSTOMER-61knc00l- : Apologies for the delay. Its a claim for possession of property listed for hearing on 30 may so i guess they fix a quit date for a few weeks. After that. My friends mum had a secure tenancy granted by hounslow council on 23 november 1981. My friend had to keep thr other tenacy as she was told the council would not pay her to look aftrr her mum if they lived in the same house. I understand thats a general rule. But a council can waive in some cases and pay a relative. To live at same house. She could succeed to tenacy but because of this she could not give up other tenacy.
LondonlawyerJ :

Thankyou for that. I am busy for most of the rest of the weekend but will answer you this evening or tomorrow morning. I hope that is OK.

JACUSTOMER-61knc00l- :


Hi, I thought that I would set out the facts in one full emil (as I was using mobile phone last week and may have missed questions)

My firneds has a court date set for noon on Friday 30th May 2014. The council is seeking a possession order the hearing is listed for ten minutes.

The docket is styled the mayor and burgesss of the council v my friend.

My friends mother was granted secure tenacy on 23rd November 1981. The council claims it was a sole tenacy but my friend lived there alongsidfe her younger brothers as children.

My friend has always provided care for her mother. Her mother was diagnosed with alehimers in March 2012 but my friend weas staying most days/nights with her mother from before Christmas 2011. My friend was signing on for JSA at the time. My firnmeds mother had council carers who came in for a some time morning and evening but where wholy in efecitive. Due to the effects of alheimers my fruiemd was able to become her mothers carer from about june/july 2012 (through the forms sent to the DWP where lost by them and the mother took till july/august 2012 to resign the duoplicates).

Where the council pays a carer this normally to a non relative and to someone not living at the premesis. Through the person who did the direct payment know denies it she knew that my friend would be living with weher mother. As the mother needed 24 hours support and the paid period fo support was for several hours in the week.

It is solely on the basis that the council told my friend that she could not give live with her mother that she was forced to run the other tenacy. She also has a younger daugtheer whos father was murdered in 2011 and who was atatcehd to her grand mother and it was consider not a good thing for her to see her grandmother failing, but if my friend could have given up the other tenacy she would have done so in a shot.

I have done a FoIA request to London councils and ity transpires that whilst the general rule is that one cannot be paid carer and live with the person you care for. That there are exemptins in the rules tro permit this to happen. I tink the council misdirected itself in not telling my friend and thus effectively prevented my friend from succeeding to the teancy as she fulfil the criteria, i.e. living for more than a year with her mother and being carer at time of death. Through the death ocured at a hospice as the mother sopent the final feew weks (maybe a moth) there.

Further the person who refused succession refused it prior to any application being nmade and then adjudicated the actual application. This person has shown bias aagainst my friend, and has bombarded her calls to hand the keys in prior to the mothersd death and also the day before the funeral.

Apologise for anyspelling mistakes.

LondonlawyerJ :


OK so your friend was living with her mother for some time and it was in fact her principal residence. She had another tenancy I her name which she did not occupy. She didn’t surrender the other tenancy because she feared unintentional homelessness. The tenancy of your friend’s mother was a secure tenancy. Can you just tell me was your friend’s mother ever a joint tenant of the flat (eg with her husband?). If so, there may already have been a succession of the tenancy and can not be another one.

Your friend wants to stay living at her mother’s flat which she has been paying rent/occupation charges for. Her daughter (an adult?) has been living in the flat which is in your friend’s name.

AS far as defending the possession proceedings your friend will need to assert that she is entitled to succeed to the tenancy. The rules on this in a very simple form are:

A person will be qualified to succeed if:

  1. The person is either the tenant's spouse or another member of the tenant's family. (If the latter, the person must have resided with the tenant for the 12 months prior to the tenant's death),

  2. The person occupied the premises as his or her only or principal home at the tenant's death, and

  3. The tenant was not such a successor him or herself. (Accordingly, only one statutory succession is permitted - though if the deceased tenant succeeded at a time when the tenancy in question was not secure, a second succession will be allowed - Birmingham CC v Walker)


If these conditions are met then she will be able to defend the proceedings on the basis that she is entitled to succeed to the tenancy. However there is some complex law on this issue and it would be very hard to raise these arguments without legal representation. If she was in receipt of housing benefit for her other flat she needs to be careful to make sure that she has not said something on her HB forms that contradicts her argument that she has succeeded to the tenancy.

It seems that your friend was in receipt of means tested benefits. If she still is then she would be entitled to free representation under legal aid. She should contact a local solicitor who specialises in defending possession proceedings. She will be able to find such a lawyer by following this link It may be a good idea to check that the solicitor is a member of the Housing Law Practitioners Association.

I hope this answer is helpful but please feel free to ask further questions. I will be moving this question out of the chat section into Q & A but will still respond to any further

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

many thanks, XXXXX XXXXX helpful. The mother fled domestic abuse in Dublin in 1973. She did remarry but this chap has not been on the scence for at least 15 years and certainly not in the years i have know them.

my friends youngest daughter was staying at the other tenacy with her older siblings she is 15 years old now.


The problem is that given the misleading advice issued by the direct payment person (for my friend to be carer to her mum) that she could not live at the accomodation and be paid, through I understand that this can happen my friend does not have official documents showing living at her mums. except various deliveries from amazon etc.


I will advice her to get legal aid lawyer, and hopefully get a positive result. But as I say the diffciulty is beyound health professionals writing letters to confirm shes lived their there arwe no other docs such as electoral role etc.

Expert:  LondonlawyerJ replied 2 years ago.
I think the question in terms of succession is whether her Mother's flat was her only or principal residence. This is a matter of fact and if there was another address in her name that she was not living in it she still can still succeed to her mother's tenancy. The misleading advice should not impact on the basic factual question of where was her only or principal residence.

If there are some letters to her at that address (like Amazon) and other people who can say she was living there as well as her her evidence of course then she is likely to be able to show (only needs to show it was probable she lived there rather than certain she lived there) that she was living there.
LondonlawyerJ, Advocate
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 775
Experience: Solicitor with over 15 years experience.
LondonlawyerJ and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hello the court granted the possession order. The barrister for my friend did not raise the fact that my friend had letters from gp and other aswell as amazon slips proving luving more then a year caring for her mum. Can we appeal the order?
Expert:  LondonlawyerJ replied 2 years ago.
Your friend needs to talk to her solicitors and get an explanation for this. She may be able to appeal if she moved quickly. Were you at the hearing was the question of succession raised?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thank you. The barrister did not put foward any case for succession. He told my friend she would lose the case so did not bother to make an arguement for. He just asked for 14 days to move out. He refused to call me as a witness or submit any evidence i.e. amazon slips. Gp lettrs etc.
how does she appeal?
Expert:  LondonlawyerJ replied 2 years ago.
She needs first of all to contact her solicitor and ask for written advice about what took place at court and why? Her solicitor has a legal obligation to send her a letter explaining what happened at court and advising if future action she can take. She should specifically ask why the succession point was not taken. There may be a good legal reason for this but it needs to be explained to her. Once she has this she may want to consult a different solicitor.

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