I am asking if the following can be used as a defence:
1 That I have a medical condition.
2 That I had planned my pee stops and this urgent need came on suddenly and
3 That I ensured that no-one could see exactly what I was doing since I had my back to them.
Does the choice of a plastic bin as opposed to a pool on the floor help my defence?
FOR JO C
After I had pee'd into the waste bin I was keen to cover up the fact that I had done it and slipped my penis into one side of my trousers, to make myself decent. Continuing the charade that I had not actually pee'd I turned round to face two women with a babe in arms who were sitting near the toilet door, and waited for the toilet to be vacated. A few moments later it was vacated and I stepped inside to simulate using the toilet.
At the next station I was told by a British Transport Police officer that the ladies had alleged that I had pee'd in the waste bin and that I had then exposed myself to them. I admitted that I had pee'd in the waste bin but said I had not exposed myself to them since I had been extremely careful to ensure that they could not see what I was doing.
Later on, after I had been allowed to go, I thought over the exposure part and thought that it might have been the case that my member had been visible when I turned round, since, in order to not make it obvious I had been peeing, I had only put my member away into my trousers and had not zipped up the fly.
Would you review your previous answers and tell me:
1 What law/s I would have broken
2 What is the likely sentence.
3 Would I be entered onto the sex offenders register
My defence is that I took the best course in handling my need to pee and that I had not intentionally exposed myself.
As I mentioned before it was alleged that I had exposed myself to them. In your answer you said "Unless there is an allegation of exposure" it is S5. Did you mean "Unless there is an allegation of indecent exposure?"
Also regarding "a risk that more than 2 people could see" - there were two ladies plus a babe in arms - does the baby make three?
No-one has yet suggested what I will be charged under. The suggestion that it might be S5 at the start of our interaction was based on my own inexpert research and did not come from the police.
The police have simply told me of the allegation y the two women, without specifying what law I have broken.
Two more questions - thanks for your patience:
1 For outraging public decency and S5 what are the penalties and what do you think would be likely in my case?
2 If I am convicted of outraging public decency would I be put on the Sex Offenders Register?
1 Should I offer to send (through the police) an apology to the ladies who I upset. I feel I want to but I am not sure what the legal implications are. I have already admitted to the police that I peed in the waste bin.
2 I have been told to expect to be asked to come in for a taped interview once the police have obtained CCTV footage to talk about the allegations made by the ladies about me. Should I arrange to take a solicitor with me or will that make the police more keen to pursue a harder line?
3 Should I appoint a solicitor located near to where this all happened in order to reduce professional travelling costs or do you think I will be interviewed and, if necessary, seen in a magistrates court local to my home?
4 Should I get a doctor's note explaining that I have an enlarged prostate and that one symptom of this is the need for urgent urination.
5 I a Caution an option for the police and should I accept it if they offer it?
I have been asked to pay a Fixed Penalty Notice fine of £90 or go to court.
A I understand that your view is that saying I had an urgent need to pee due to a medical condition would not be well received, also B The situation was aggravated by my exposing myself, which could not reasonably be attributed to a medical condition.Because of A and B above it does not seem like a good idea to go to court. Is that what you think?
2 I wrote out a statement, for my own use, explaining what happened, drawing attention to the facts thata I felt I had taken the least worst course of action (i.e. Peeing in a waste bin rather than on a seat or the floor) and,b I had to pee due to a medical conditionc I had gone to great lengths to ensure I did not expose myself (although this was insufficient, it seems, in the eventShould I read this to the police and ask for its contents to be reorded against the FPN record?
3 Should I take a solicitor with me or is that overkill now?
4 I would like to send an apology to the ladies involved (through the police). Is this a good idea now that I know what the police propose?
5 On the British Transport Police web-site it says that they will keep a record for "administrative purposes" and take the FPN into account if something happens again. I assume that is reasonable and I should not complain about it. What do you think?
6 Also on the web-site it says that i) the FPN will not be recorded on the Police National Computer ii) it would not be cited in a DBS (ex CRB) check iii) that I would not have a criminal record as a result.Is this what you understand?
They offered to come to my home but I preferred to vist the police station. I did not want to have a police car outside my house.
When you say, "No, it will just rob you of your rights under PACE", do you mean that I should not read a statement (my item 2 above) or that I should not send an apology (my item 4 above) or both?
Note that I have admitted to the police that I peed in the waste bin and two ladies saw me do it. Also I believe they have CCTV. I therefore believe that it is not worth going to court and in any event, if I do not get a criminal record I am happy to go with the FPN.
I have been told by the police that the £90 FPN is for S5. I have already admitted to the offence.
I do not have a solicitor lined up. If in the meeting they want more than a simple admission and the cash payment, can I say that I do not want to go further without a solicitor being present ?