How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Jo C. Your Own Question
Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 70535
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
12826847
Type Your Law Question Here...
Jo C. is online now

I have just received a ticket as I was parked on a school keep

Resolved Question:

I have just received a ticket as I was parked on a school keep clear markings BUT there is no school in operation here as it is being knocked down and building works are being done to it; there is rubble everywhere, fences, ladders, machinery and the school has moved to a temporary building on the playing fields - a long way away from the original school (which hasn't been used for over 3 years anyway), which is what these markings relate to. Is it legal to issued this ticket as this building is not a school and in fact for health and safety reasons children are not allowed anywhere near it! I am absolutely disgusted as I am registered disabled and this was the nearest I could park to collect my son, and all the parents are parking here morning and afternoon as this building is not used as a school and no children are allowed near it, therefore the argument that this sign is protecting the children is a nonsense as no children are allowed to go into this building and it is not being used as a school! Please advise me as I really feel this is an outrage and totally unfair.
Fiona Wilder [email protected]
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Hi.

Thank you for your question. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.

Who is the issuer please?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

London borough of Haringey - unfortunately this is a private school - Highgate Junior School and my car is a 6 month old mercedes ML, which means I'm fair game to them!

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Thank you.

What is the contravention code please?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Contravention code 48 and it states on ticket:-



" who believed that the following contravention was being committed:


STOPPED IN A RESTRICTED AREA OUTSIDE A SCHOOL A HOSPITAL OR A FIRE, POLICE OR AMBULANCE STATION WHEN PROHIBITED"


 


but at present this is not a school as it is being rebuilt and no children are allowed near it! Surely this makes this contravention null and void?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
No, I'm afraid not.

Do you dispute that there were keep clear markings on the road?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

No there were clear markings, but the building isn't a school anymore, how can it be it legal to give a ticket for this contravention if the building isn't being used as a school? I really want to take this up and I think it is totally wrong and unfair and just an excuse to raise revenue.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
That isn't the issue I'm afraid.

The issue is what the road markings say and whether they have lawful authority.

What you are trying to argue effectively is that because there is no good reason for the lawful authority then the law should be suspended. That is a point that could be made about a large number of things. Lots of law is unfair. Men falsely accused of abuse shouldn't be named while their accusers hide behind anonymity for instance but they are because that is the law.

If the traffic management order or Secretary of State designates this location as suitable for keep clear signing and the roads were clearly marked in a way that conforms with the requirements to give the motorist 'adequate guidance' of the prohibition then it is enforceable.

The fact that the original reason for the prohibition no longer applies doesn't suspend the law.

You could write to them asking them to cancel using their discretionary powers on this basis but Hariney BC, being what they are generally, is not a council known for thinking outside the box much. It does no harm to try as usually they extend the 14 day discount period anyway even if they reject your representations.

I'm very sorry but I have to give you truthful information.

Can I clarify anything for you?

Jo
Jo C. and 3 other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hi Jo, yes wonder if you can, can you find some evidence where this has happened before and a council let the person of the infringement? And can you signpost me to where I might find more information to help me fight this unfair ticket? Taking my son to school this morning the whole area where it has the yellow zig zags and signage on road was full of workmen's trucks, vans and parent's cars parked there,with not 1 traffic warden in sight!

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.

I'm afraid there is no basis upon which to fight this for the reasons above.

You could write to them asking them to cancel using their discretionary powers on this basis but Hariney BC, being what they are generally, is not a council known for thinking outside the box much. It does no harm to try as usually they extend the 14 day discount period anyway even if they reject your representations.

You can complain about the absence of workman but thats not a basis to challenge the law.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Well I'm going to have to go back and take measurements to see if all the zig zags and writing is within the requirements as laid out in law. I saw this information somewhere do you know what the requirement stipulates?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Yes, but you don't often win on that basis now.

Adjudicators used to reject those arguments on the basis that they were de minimis anyway but there has been some case law that has allowed them to rely on the doctrine of 'substantial compliance' with the requirements which has been interpreted to mean that if the signing was such that the reasonably observant motorist would have known what was required of him or not then that is adequate.

Zig zag lines are enforced by this legislation

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/contents/made

but unless the lines were so worn that you couldn't make sense of them there is no challenge on this basis I'm afraid.

I'm happy to continue with this but please leave feedback for my answer.