Did you notify the government body before hand regarding the loss of income and loss of opportunity please?
Note, I am currently on holiday so there may be a short delay in my responses
yes, I did notify them with a formal complaint but it has failed to offer me a proper financial remedy as they offered me an ex gratia payment of £120, which I politely declined.
Did you notify the government body when you applied for leave that you would have a loss of income/opportunity please?
Also why did you go to a private hospital, why not NHS?
Can you rephrase that question , please? because they were meant to respond between 4-13 weeks but in my case , it took 10 months which is approximately 40 weeks between which I couldn't seek appointment, in my case I couldn't launch my business, got diagnosed with depression, which was clearly not acceptable and they have clearly apologized. I haven't used the private hospital, i intend to use it for my rehabilitation if my claim is successful because I need the best care possible as all the NHS offers me now are anti depressants.
Why can't you use an NHS hospital?
in case of "appointment" its "employment" excuse my spell checker
this ill treatment came from a government body and the NHS is a government body .
So you would chose to go private rather than NHS?
Is the treatment cost within your £20,000?
I have lost trust in goverment body and I don't intend to entrust my mental health to another one and again all NHS does today is hand me anti depressants
Is the treatment cost in your £20,000?
Yes absolutely because , the service there would be at a premium... The treatment would be over a course of time and to secure an appointment alone with an expert there is £250 for an initial assessment. So I suppose, if I get a quote from my initial assessment, I would know how much it'll cost and how long it'll take for treatments.
And the business you were planning on launching, you were doing this self employed rather than seek employment?
I am currently running a fairly successful business today www.e4computerrepair.co.uk & www.e4creations.co.uk , self employed as director of the business
and I was able to get this business running as soon my VISA was approved in february 2013
Had your business started and running in the UK please?
Yes, the business was incorporated in 30/09/2012 but was dormant till february 2013... Reason for dormancy is because I couldn't run the company because of my Visa hasn't been approved... Yes its been running in the UK from february 2013
And did you have employed jobs turned down because of your status?
Okay, they didnt state clear reasons why it was turned down but i believe it was partly because of my status because its always at that stage of revealing my visa status, thats where i always got turned down
Ok thats the background - what is it you would like to know from me
1.I just want to know how to tackle this case because its not a simple one... As no one has taken up this case for me in a no win no fee basis , i'd like to represent myself with me making minimal mistake.... 2. Do you believe I have a good case (i have all evidence from loss of income/opportunity to ukba raid) accompained with some amateur investigation of requesting documents from the UKBA
Do I think you have a good case yes and no
I think you may have a claim but I do not think it is worth £20,000
The problems you face are this.
Any claim for personal injury over £1,000 is put what is called in the fast tracvk
* track *
This means if you lose you are responsible for the legal costs of the other side
Therefore there is a risk
The next thing I think you have difficulty with is causation
You need to prove it was a direct result of what UKBA did that made you suffer depression
You need to show a causal link
Not only that you need to show that they owed you a duty of care, they broke that duty and you were injured as a result
I sadly can not see, whilst I accept their service was poor, that this was negligence that caused you a personal injury
Even if I am wrong about that the next hurdle you have to overcome is remoteness
That is, are the damages you claim within the reasonable contemplation of the parties at the time of this
I am unable to see a clear link between you applying for a visa, it being turned down and then you seeking to recover £20,000 and suffering depresssion
Would it have been reasonable for UKBA to foresee this when you applied - I can't see how it can be
Then the final issue is the loss
You want to claim loss of business for a business that had not started. I can not see how you claim that.
If the business had been trading for several years, you could show a trading history and then I could see potential for some loss of earnigns
But here, the business had not started and you were self employed. Any loss there is therefore theoretical and not actual. Courts are not minded to award theoretical loss
Finally there is the issue of the private mental heath treament.
As a victim you have a duty to mitigate your loss
Therefore the Courts would not award you private health care for rehabilitation. They would expect you to minimise any loss and go via the NHS
The NHS is a government department but with everything that you do in the UK, they are government departments
You can't claim private health care just because you don't want to use the NHS, this would simply not be allowed
Therefore given the difficulties you face which are:
1) proving negligence
4) loss of opportunity
5) loss of business
6) loss of employment
7) health care
I think whilst you do have a claim, it would not be anywhere near the figures you are seeking to recover
I am sorry if this is not the answer you want and certainly not the one I want to give you, but I have a duty to be honest
Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?
My application for the VISA was never turned down
my job application were turned down
That makes no difference - I understand it was delayed by 10 months
and what do you mean by remoteness
Yes I understand your job was turned down
Remoteness - was the loss in reasonable contemplation of the parties at the time of the application
If not - its too remote
Please can you explain in plain English
I am involved in a car accident - I am injured
With me so far?
I can not work
My loss of earnings are £10,000 for say 6 months
That is reasonably forseeable
However if I then decide I can't pay a loan and was made bankrupt, that could not have been forseen.
The test is "You must take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour."
When driving a motor car it is foreseeable that a passenger as well as other road users directly affected if the driver is careless
It might be foreseeable that a victim may suffer physical injuries if D drives carelessly, but it would not be foreseeable that she should suffer a miscarriage.
Whilst I think there may be a case, it will be a hard one
Can I clarify anything else for you?
So you believe they don't owe me a duty of care?
as a govermental body
In terms of applying for a visa, no
Not in terms of negligence
They may have been sloppy, but is not negligence
Even if it was you have the problem of remoteness and your damages
no, they confirmed I wasn't having a case worker till december 2012, so basically my documents where in the archives and after my visa was approved, my biometrics card took another month and a half to arrive
Yes I understand that.
But negligence against a government department (save for places like hospitals etc) is quite hard to prove
Even the Police do NOT owe the public a duty of care
But there is nothing stopping you bringing a claim
You asked me for my view and that is you will face diffculty.
what about the raid to my proeprty?
You have never said in your question about a raid to your property?
Please read my original question
Yes it does not mention about a raid.
It simply says 'distress caused from their visit'
They visited your house causing distress
They are legally entitled to visit premises
You did not said you were raided.
But by law they have the power to do this.
If you think you were mistreated, the Ombudsman is the way forward
But if they did not find for you, the UKBA will bring this up to a Judge and that will be persuasive
As I said, I think you may have a claim but it will be hard and uphill
Can I clarify anything else for you today please?
if I am to take up this case, what evidence would I present to a judge to help my case
You need a psychiatric report
You need evidence confirming the link between what happened and your condition
my medical evidence stated that i suffered from their mistreatment and my therapist would testify too
It would then be down to the discretion of a Judge to find for you
Litigation is not certain by any means
what about loss of income/opportunity?
You would have to convince a Judge that was the case and reasonably forseeable
Does this answer your question?
so sorry another thing
I would want to an injuction from a judge to give UKVI a strict guidelines and dates to repsond to VISA applications... Would I be able to add this to my case as more than 100,000 non eu migrants are suffering from what i suffered
That is nothing to do with you
You have no standing to do that - that is a matter for the UKBA and the Goverment
Does this clarify?
undermining thousands of me are suffering from this mistreatment
But you have no standing to bring an injunction
A body like Amnesty International for Judicial Review proceedings
So no one can bring a case to court and ask the judge to ask the body avoid incidence of such to happen in the future?
But personally no
Can I clarify anything else for you today?
If not might I ask you to rate my answer
If the system wont let you please do say.
If you need further help please click reply
You have rated POOR SERVICE despite spending an hour and a half discussing the matter with you?
I found you aggressive and not being patient with me, its a feedback ....
But you are happy with the answer I gave, the detail etc?
not particularly but too some extent
If I could invite you to click OK service then please, otherwise I do not get credited for the hour and a half I spent discussing the matter with you
Unless there is something else you wish to discuss that we have not covered?
you completely highlighted where I don't have a case and ignored where i potentially have a case
I said you may have a case, but highlighted the difficulties you may face
You have to concentrate on these because that is what the UKBA will do
And you need to prove the case to the Judge
You bring the claim, you need to prove it. As defendant the UKBA has to do very little
please if you can take your time again and advise me of where I potentially have a case in detail like you did where I don't have a case, I would be very grateful
Ok - but I am currently on holiday so it may not be an instant response
no no worries at all, take your time
Please also bear in mind that the fee you pay for the service is not the same as going to see a Solicitor, so time is more limited. If you were to see a Solicitor it would be £200 an hour and we have already spent 1.5 hours.
I think in terms of positives for your case, the fact the UKBA have offered some compensation does help
However in my view the most cost effective way of progressing this would be through an Ombudsman and/or your MP
This is because if you go to Court there is always a risk
An Ombudsman is a free service.
But I think in terms of Court you may be better off changing approach to Judicial Review
This is where a High Court Judge considers what they have done and decides whether it is legal and reasonable
The Judge can either agree with their decision or remit it back for further consideration or declare it was unreasonable
You should do that first of all as you may know where you stand in terms of damages if the Judge considers it unreasonable
There is a protocol you must followe
This can be found here
In short you have to write setting out the position and that you will seek a JR
They have a limited time to respond
if they do not you can start JR proceedings'
The matter then goes before a Judge who sees whether it is contested
If not the Judge can make a declaration and you know where you stand
If the matter is contested it will be set down for a full hearing'
No thank you very much, very helpful