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Matt Jones
Matt Jones, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 671
Experience:  I am a qualified and practising Solicitor with over 7 years post qualification experience
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Hi in relation to our windows our lease states: ‘All doors

Customer Question

Hi
in relation to our windows our lease states:
‘All doors door frames windows (including glazing therein) and window frames thereof and the internal painted or varnished surfaces of all windows windows frames doors and door frames thereof’
But does not include:
‘the external painted or varnished surfaces of the doors door frames windows and window frames of the demised premises’

The landlord says "Therefore the windows are your responsibility. The landlord is responsible for painting the exterior of the windows only."

This is their response to my concern that the windows are too old and should be replaced.

However they are refusing to replace the windows using the above provision in the lease but have proposed to charge us similar cost to repair the 45 years old windows.

My question is does this provision allows them to repair the windows without the tenant's consent while they say they cannot replace without every single tenant consent?
Thank you
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hello,

I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Nicola
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

De Ja VU


 


I pay £22.00 monthly not to get this answer from you. Every time I ask a question you appear do you want your question to be answered. I think you are not acting professionally and yes I expect my question to be answered. The expert in this regard is property lawyer.


 


I also have huge concern about you appearing as an expert on the page which seems my question is answered by an expert while you are an expert.


 


Also I have requested this before about a page with list of your expert which we can go to but still have not provided it and keep wasting my time. I expect an answer to my question.


 


Thank you

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hello,

We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.

I am a moderator for this topic, not an Expert, although JustAnswer's system shows us as experts.

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  tdlawyer replied 2 years ago.
Hello

Apologies it's taken a while to find somebody to look at this. I can answer this for you.

Can you set out the text of the actual clause for me please, so I can see who's obligations are said to be what, and how they're expressed.

Thanks
Tony
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Tony, please see below


 


a) the demised premises include:


 



(iv) all doors door frames windows (including glazing therein) and window frames thereof and the internal painted or varnished surfaces of all windows windows frames doors and door frames thereof’


 


(b) the demised premises do not include:


 


(iii) the external painted or varnished surfaces of the doors door frames windows and window frames of the demised premises’


 


and it is hereby further agreed and declared that in case of any doubt or dispute as to whether any part of the building is structural or non-structural the matter shall for the purpose of determining what constitutes the extent of the demised premises be conclusively determined by the surveyor (as defined in the third Schedule to this lease)


 


Thank you

Expert:  Matt Jones replied 2 years ago.
Hi I'm Matt

I will take over in trying to assist you. A few questions.

1)Is this a residential or commercial property?
2) Is there a service charge payable.
3) also am I right in saying that you wish the windows to be replaced, and they are saying they can only repair, but the cost is roughly the same?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Matt


 


1) Residential


2) Yes


3) yes


 

Expert:  Matt Jones replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for your replies

It is a little difficult is interpreting a lease without seeing the full copy, however on the face of the clause that you have given me as follows:-

a) The primary inclusion as part of your property is ALL door frame and window frames. This is the starting point and shows that the frames belong to you

b) the SURFACE of the frames however are excluded. They belong to the landlord. The question of how far the depth of a SURFACE would be is a moot point, but taking a sensible view I would say that it is just the bit that can be painted.

given this I tend to agree with your landlord. If the frames belong to each tenant then each tenant would have to expressly consent to their replacement. However the landlord have an already built in mechanism for repair, and that is to paid and maintain the exterior, which is what the propose.

I am sorry this may not be what you wished to hear but I have tried to be as honest as possible. There is a provision for expert determination of the extent and so you could invoke this to get a formal declaration for a surveyor, but it may just put up costs for little gain.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thank you for your response and of course I would like you to be as honest as possible in your professional view.


I am confused with some part of your response:


 


I accept the window and its frames belong to lessees and I accept each of them should have consented to its replacement. That is the argument we have been given for the past two years.


 


However nowhere in this clause or any other clause in our lease give the right to the landlord to repair any part of our windows or its frames and it does states that the lessees are responsible for the frames and its repairs.


My argument is that according to our lessee, the landlord can only for instance sand the surface and do all the necessary works to the SURFACE of the frames and make them ready for the paint but they cannot repair my window frames by injecting plastic materials and at some cases replace the timbers as 95% of the frames are rotten at the base without my consent. The mechanism is to maintain the external paint and varnishes. These are my windows and I am responsible for repairing them. Right?


 


Please see below landlord’s lawyers’ response to me as they kind of contradict themselves:


 


“Part 1 of the First Schedule to the Original Lease provides that the premises let to you include “all windows (including glazing therein) and window frames thereof and the internal painted or varnished surfaces of all windows and window frames”.


However it is specifically stated that the premises let to you do not include the external painted or varnished surfaces of the windows and window frames.


Consequently, you are responsible for the repair, Maintenance and renewal of the windows (including glazing therein) and the window frames and the internal painted or varnished surfaces of all windows and window frames under your general repairing obligation at clause 1 of the Forth Schedule to the Original Lease.


 


The commissioners are responsible for repairs to the external painted or varnished surfaces of the windows and window frames and are obliged to carry out those works to the window frames of the property under the terms of the Original lease: Your consent to the carrying out of those works is not required”.


 


My question is considering their argument above:


 


1- How much are my chances if I applied for injunction?


2- Can I do it since the observation time limit was until 19th of June. 47 people out of 127 flat have disagreed with repairs through their observation and thought it was wasting money and they should be replaced. Not even one lessee has sent an observation to agree with the proposed work. They are responding this week to our observation.


 


3- How much does it cost to apply for injunction?


Thank you

Expert:  Matt Jones replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for your replies

We are talking more about repairing obligations now rather than extent of ownership (hence why I was saying that it is difficult interpreting a lease this way).

What does the lease say about

1) your repairing obligations
2) the landlord repairing obligations
3) the landlord repairing obligations in default of the tenant fulfilling their obligations?

on another note, if you wish can offer a service(for an additional cost) where we speak over the phone/skype for a period of time to get a fuller idea of your predicament. Just for you to bear in mind
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Whatever is in our lease in relation to repair obligations and the windows and its frames has been mentioned in my previous post. I have also in inverted coma posted landlord's argument. please give your opinion about their argument and my questions listed at the end of my post. It is not necessary for me for further service at this stage but however I may need it soon. so please do give me your skype details and cost.


 


Thank you

Expert:  Matt Jones replied 2 years ago.

Hi, I am not sure you have posted the repair obligations in the above posts. What you have shown is the description of the extent of the demise. The repair obligations are different and usually contained further into the lease. So, for example, the repair obligations may say that the Landlord has the right to repair and maintain premises where the tenants are failing to do so. This is important as, I agree with you, on the face of it they should only be allowed to touch the surface with paint or varnish, rather than the "structure" of the frames. However if there is a default provision allowing them to repair where there is disrepair then it may change things,and impacts on the likelihood of obtaining an injunction. As a side point I would say is that it is quite a costly affair obtaining an injunction,and not one to take lightly. Indeed you have to give the court a "undertaking for damages" which means if you obtain an interim injunction that is then not upheld in the final hearing, you will be liable for cost and damages of the Landlord

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks


I have decided to go for it. I am fed up with their bullying tactics.


 


If there were any other clause, I'm sure their lawyers would have mentioned it in their letter to me which I have posted the important part above. And in any case I have directly have asked them whether there was any clause or provisions in the lease that would allow them to repair my window frames, They said no but it is appropriate to repair them before painting them. Just because they think it is "appropriate" does not give them the contractual right.


 


Even if there were such clause you mentioned, they should at least give us a chance and say to lessees that hey should repair their windows so they can get on with their maintenance obligations.



Would you know the application numbers for the injunction?



and you did not post me your skype name and your fees.



Thank you

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