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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69361
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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Good Morning, I have come to your website via Ticketfighter.

Customer Question

Good Morning,
I have come to your website via 'Ticketfighter'.
Briefly:
On 15/02/14 I parked in Lewes, East Sussex. On returning to my car a Traffic Warden pointed out to me that my parking ticket wasn't visible. It had, in fact, fallen face down, but still had nearly an hour to run. I showed him and he gave me a bit of a lecture on making sure it could be seen. He said he could report it, but would not on this occasion. My partner witnessed this.
I received a TE3 Order for unpaid penalty charge around the beginning of June, when I arrived back from France on 06/06/14. My partner and I sent in witness statements TE9 to the traffic enforcement centre.
I received a letter on 14/06/14 from the court saying that the intended prosecution was revoked.
On 20/06/14 I received a letter from ESCC(East Sussex County Council). The NtO states that I did not display a valid pay & display ticket and is claiming £50.

Whilst this is only a small amount, I feel a priciple is at stake. Obviously I've read up on this, but would welcome the views of a professional!
Kind Regards
Bob Cornford
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Hi.

Thank you for your question. My name is Jo and I will try to help with this.

What would you like to know about this please?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


Hi Jo,


Thanks for your reply. I have drafted a reply to the NtO based on their procedural impropriety in not handing me an NtO or PCN at the scene. Is that a valid case? I want to defend this....so what I'm asking is:


Are my grounds for defense sound?


Are there any other grounds for defense I should consider / use?


Are my chances of success high?


Would I be able to recover any legal costs?


Thank you.


Bob

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Does the traffic warden accept that it wasn't handed to you? Usually they 'forget' that.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


I have had no correspondence with ESCC other than that referred to above. Nothing at all!

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
OK.

But have you seen their notes?

Can we go right back to the basics with this? You have made a stat dec on what basis?

Normally it wouldn't be taken back to the issue of NTO unless you accepted receipt of the PCN?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I have seen nothing from ESCC. From the Traffic Warden telling me he wasn't going to take action on 15th Feb to getting the TE3 Order for Unpaid PCN on 7th or 8th June I had nothing. Our TE9 Statement was based on the fact that I got no NtO at the scene and the CEO was NOT prevented from doing so. At the time (Early June) I had no idea of the exact grounds of their action as I had only the Order for Unpaid Penalty Charge.


I may have assisted them inadvertantly as they sent the subsequent NtO to state: "83: Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket"


Quite clearly this was the case. But equally clear is the fact that all NtOs / PCNs should be issued at the time.


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Was that stat dec in time? I don't think that can have been the basis if it was not.

There is one ground only for an out of time stat dec and that is explaining why you are out of time.

Unless you went on to do that by saying that these factors were why you hadn't responded?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


The TE3 Order for Unpaid Penalty Charge gave a closing date of 19/06/14. Our Witness Statements were sent on the 10/06/14. I received notice from the Court dated 14/06/14 it had been received and that the order had been revoked. So it was definately within the time limit. At no time has time been pointed out as an issue.


I'm not claiming that time was an element in this. My contention is:


There has been a procedural impropriety.


The CEO was not prevented from handing the Owner a NtO or PCN.


The only reasons for allowing a NtO or PCN to not to do so is:


Camera Enforcement; CEO was prevented from handing the PCN by reason of the vehicle being driven away during the issuing process; The CEO was prevented by someone from issuing the PCN at the scene.


Since the CEO told my partner and myself that he had no intention of taking matters any further none of these things apply.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Would it be possible to give me the information I asked for?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


I'm not sure what you mean? I had no contact with anyone other than the Traffic Warden who told me he wasn't going to take any action. I've seen no notes or other information from ESCC until I received a new NtO issued on 14/06/14.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Okay. Sorry if I'm not being clear.

What I need to know is

Number one-did you make an in time statutory declaration or an out of time one?

Number two-what were the grounds of the statutory declaration?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

The only statements I have made were the TE9 Witness Statements. I have made no response as yet to the NtO issued on the 24th June, as that is what I'm working on as we speak. The time limit for that is 28 days -so 22nd July.


Is what you call the Statutary Declaration the 'Formal Representation against the PCN' ? If so..... that is what I'm trying to get together right now.


 


Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
TE9 witness statements usually accompany a stat dec.

Have I got this right? They got a charging order against you and you got it set aside? I need to know on what ground?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

The letter I had from the Traffic Enforcement Centre Northampton (Not ESCC) was form TE3 'Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge'.


My partner & I both sent in separate form TE9 'Witness statement'.


 


 


The Northants County Court notified me that "The Respondent filed a satutuory declaration / witness notice on 14/06. It is ordered that the order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge be revoked. It is further ordered that the charge certificate and NtO / enforcement Notice be cancelled".


The subsequent letter from ESCC said:


"You made the declaration on the basis that the NtO in respect of the above PCN was not received. In view of this the Court order has been revoked and the NtO and charge certificate have been cancelled".

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Okay. That is what I expected. Now, why was this statutory declaration not made on the basis that you didn't get the original PCN?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

The problem I had at the time was there was information contained in the TE3 as to what the alleged transgression was. Since it was unclear as to what was refered to I had to cover a 'failure to display' or unpaid parking.... or in fact anything else they could dream up! Since I quite clearly had a conversation with the traffic warden, it all seemed very unclear to me....especially as he had told me quite clearly in front of a witness that he was taking no action.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Sorry?

I'm not sure I understand?

If you didn't get the PCN why wasn't that the ground?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


I did put that in my TE9 and it was the grounds for the Order being revoked. It's just that ESCC have issued another NtO and intend to continue with it. It is that subsequent action that I am now seeking to head off.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
There isn't any way of preventing them from reissuing. They are entitled to do that.

It is rather strange that they have gone straight to the Notice to Owner when your stat dec seems to have been on the basis that you didn't get the PCN. If so, they should be reissuing the PCN. Unless, of course, they say that you accept receiving the PCN by reason of your representations.

In any event, on your substantive point above, it is a defence to say that you didn't get the PCN. The warden is under a duty to affix it to your car or hand it to the driver. I wouldn't raise it as a procedural irregularity though personally. i would just raise it as a direct challenge to the offence. That is an academic point really though. It won't affect your challenge.

What will affect the challenge is if the warden is saying that the ticket was handed to you or affixed to your car. If that is the case you should ask for sight of the photograph of the ticket upon your car that was taken at scene. The answer you will get is that the camera was broken in which case you should ask for sight of the broken equipment report that was filed and then usually they throw their hand in fast enough.

Can I clarify anything for you?

Jo
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks for that Jo,


Just a last point, are they obliged to keep a copy of the original ticket / NtO issued by the traffic Warden? Can I ask for it? Because I'd like to see the original grounds for the contravention.


Regards


Bob

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Yes, and in fact I would ask for sight of the warden's handwritten notes. The issue there isn't so much the ground for the contravention but what the explanation is for whether the fine was issued.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


Thanks very much for your help Jo.


Hopefully this will kill it.


Regards


Bob

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No problem and all the best.

Remember that I am always available to help with your questions. Even if I am in Court I will usually pick up a question within 12 hours. For future information, please start your question with ‘For Jo C’. You can also bookmark my profile http://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/expert-remus2004/
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


Jo,


if I were to have to take the legal aspect further, would I be able to recover costs?


regards


Bob

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Not at a parking adjudication.

There are no costs. Its a paper exercise.

You can ask for an oral hearing but you don't recover costs I'm afraid.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


Ok, Thanks very much, you've been a great help.


Regards


Bob

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No problem and all the best.

Please remember to leave feedback for my answer.

Remember that I am always available to help with your questions. Even if I am in Court I will usually pick up a question within 12 hours. For future information, please start your question with ‘For Jo C’.

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