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Ask Ash Your Own Question

Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10915
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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Dear Sir/madam, we contracted a empty property security company

Customer Question

Dear Sir/madam,
we contracted a empty property security company to secure a property, as we are not happy and don't trust them due to excessive charges have instructed them to end security, however the security company is demanding full cleared payment for them to remove their items. we have an other company to secure the property however this cannot be done unless the previous company remove the stuff. only one invoice is outstanding, most of them have been paid. I don't remember signing any contract as such, only the following notes where mention in their invoice - few weeks ago they threatened us with removing their security if all payment is not paid within 24hrs. it seems they want to have it both ways.there was no credit given. want to know what can we do, as I dispute the one of the invoice, have not refused to pay but they have to remove their stuff first. any help in this matter will be much appreciated.
DAMAGE TO EQUIPMENT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE HIRER AND WILL BE CHARGEABLE.PLEASE NOTE THAT EQUIPMENT RETURNED IN A DIRTY CONDITION WILL INCUR A CLEANING CHARGE.PLEASE NOTE THAT IT IS THE HIRERS RESPONSIBILITY TO INSURE THE EQUIPMENT Terms & Conditions
i) I/We have read and agree the conditions of hire set out overleaf
ii) I/We agree to hire the above listed equipment in accordance with such conditions iii) The said equipment has been supplied on hire to me/us in good order
Card Received: £555.72
Micheal Print Name:Date: 25/02/2014.............................................................................................
THIS IS A HIRE AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974. SIGN ONLY IF YOU WANT TO BE LEGALLY BOUNDED BY ITS TERMS.TERMS NETT MONTHLY CHARGES SUBJECT TO ALTERATION DUE TO WAGE INCREASES, FUEL, ETC.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.

Alex Watts : Hello my name is Alex and I will help you with this. Please note that I am a working Solicitor and may be on and offline as I have to attend Court and meet with clients, even at weekends. As such you may not get an instant response when you reply, but rest assured I will be giving your question my immediate attention upon return You do not need to wait here as you will get an email when I reply.
Alex Watts : Have you asked for a copy of any signed contract please?
JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

hi, not yet,we do not have much time, as the new security company contract is due to start on 5.7.14. they themselves warned me of taking away security if other payment wasn't cleared last week, which was paid. can they exclusive rights to do this?

Alex Watts :

Does the contract say they can do this?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

I do not have a contract, don't remember signing any contract. have them for one to see if they have one with terms and conditions they haven't sent me one.

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

I dont kown if you have read my 1st question.last week they threatened to remove the security within 24hrs, now they say they will not remove it unless all the invoices are cleared, although most of them have been paid, on one of the invoice I have a dispute.a quicker reply will be much appreciated

Alex Watts :

Is this an ongoing contract, I assume it is?

Alex Watts :

Was it for a fixed term?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

yes, they have secured the property about 6 mths ago, no fixed term, no notice period, its just a hire facility, no credit either

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

the note at the bottom of the invoice says as per credit agreement of 1974, however no cr was given, all cash account

Alex Watts :

Ok - in that case they can't stop the agreement unless it says they can

Alex Watts :

If you have not signed an agreement then they can't remove the security

Alex Watts :

They need to carry out the service.

Alex Watts :

But then you can terminate with no notice

Alex Watts :

I assume they can't terminate without notice

Alex Watts :

You should write and tell them if they do they will be in breach of contract and you can sue for loss and damage

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

but have made payments for most invoices, will that constitute agreement to whatever terms they have? the security fence belongs to them. I have instructed a new firm to secure the property and they cannot do it unless the previous company take their stuff away

Alex Watts :

Ok - you want the old company to remove their stuff?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

yes.I have written to them to terminate the service, they have demanded full payment first, if not paid they will not remove and continue billing me, can they do this, will i liable to pay them even after giving them notice

Alex Watts :

If there is no agreement, they can't say you must pay before termination

Alex Watts :

They can;t do that

Alex Watts :

So no, you wont be liable for the bills after you have terminated, unless they can show you a signed contract

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

I asked them to show me the agreement however they haven't replies yet, if they remove the secuity without informing me, which will leave the property unsecred and could be damaged, will they be liable

Alex Watts :

Yes they will

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything else for you?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

ok, I will wait for one more day and see if they can produce the agreement they talk about, if not can I approach the police if they donot remove it. also will you able to take up this case, if we have to write to them etc, if so what are the charges?

Alex Watts :

I am unable to be instructed, this is a question and answer site and its against site rules I am sorry to say

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

ok. if they produce the agreement, which I do not remember signing,how do I dispute the invoice after the termination

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

that is if i have to pay them in full

Alex Watts :

You say you dispute it and say why. If they say you owe it they may have to take you to the County Court to prove the debt

Alex Watts :

If its below £10,000 it will be a small claim

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything else?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

ok, that should be it. should I REMIND THEM OF ANY LAW AS SUCH TO BACK MY RIGHTS A CONSUMER

Alex Watts :

Yes I would do that.

Alex Watts :

It would be breach of contract

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

ok

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

thanks for your help. if I have more questions can I write to you again?

Alex Watts :

Of course.

Alex Watts :

You can always ask for me: Alex W

Alex Watts :

If this answers your question might I invite you to rate my service

Alex Watts :

If the system wont let you or you need more help please click reply

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

thanks for your help. will do. thanks

Alex Watts :

Thank you

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

Dear Alex,

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

the security company refuses to end the security unless full outstanding payment is cleared.upon requesting numerous times , they have now sent me their terms and conditions, which I have not signed, nor does it says its from their company. I shall be grateful if you can please look at the conditions and advise me if they are right in their stand.

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

Full Size Image
sorry missed the attachment earlier, hope this works

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

Terms and Conditions of Hire
1. In these Conditions
'Fencing' means the temporary fence panels and fixtures and fittings or other equipment let on hire
'The - Company' means Safe Site Facilities Limited
'The Hirer' means the customer who contracts for the hire of fencing.
'Period of Hire' means in relation to any item of fencing the time between the date on which the Company hands over or
dispatches that item to the Hirer and the date on which the Company receives back or collects that item.
2. All Hire Only contracts are made upon these Conditions and in contracting with the Company the Hirer accepts these
Conditions to the exclusion of any Conditions of the Hirer however expressed or whenever contained.
3. This Contract may be varied by any terms or Conditions agreed in writing between the parties provided that any variation
is signed by each of the parties and is expressed to be a variation.
4. The period in respect of which hire charges will be charged for each item of Fencing shall be the Period of Hire. The date of
dispatch and the date of delivery shall both be charged as whole days.
5. The Fencing hire will be subject to a minimum hire charge which shall be the charge for the minimum hire period for such
fencing as specified In the Company's price list.
6. Prices stated In the Quotation are the prices applicable at the date of quotation. Prices may be increased at any time up to
acceptance of the Quotation. After acceptance the Company may Increase any price on 28 days notice in writing to the Hirer
provided that no price shall be increased to a sum in excess of the Company's price in force at the date when the increase is
to take effect.
7. An approved Credit Account may be opened at the Company's discretion, after a hirer furnishes two trade references and
one banker's reference. The Company reserves the right to refuse credit facilities or by written notice to the Hirer to withdraw
or reduce any further credit facilities.
8. If the hirer wishes to change the status of the account to any other legal identity than the one accepted by the company such a
change will only take effect if specifically authorised in writing by a Director of the company. The change of salutation to any
paperwork including but not limited to invoices and delivery notes is specifically not an indication the Company has accepted
any change in the contractual relationship with the hirer.
9. Payment of the Company's hire charges shall be made by a hirer with an approved credit account not later than 30 days after
the date of each invoice. If any sum remains unpaid after the due date the payment of all hire charges, no matter how recent,
shall become due immediately. Invoices will be presented at regular intervals during the Period of Hire. Punctual payment of
each invoice shall be of the essence.
10. Where a hirer does not have an approved Credit Account
i. Before the Period of Hire begins he shall pay the minimum hire charge prescribed by Condition 5 for the
minimum hire period.
ii. If the Period of Hire extends beyond the minimum hire period he shall pay in advance, for each further period equal to the
minimum hire period, the hire charges for such further period.
iii. Before the period of hire begins he shall also pay a deposit of one third of the value of the Fencing to be hired, such value
to be calculated in accordance with the Company's list price current at the time. Such deposit will be held as a security
against the return in good order of the Fencing hired and the payment of all sums due. If the hirer returns the hired Fencing
in good order at the end of the Period of Hire and has paid all hire charges and interest due, the deposit will be returned.
11. The Company reserves the right to charge interest at the rate of two and a half per cent per month on a daily basis on all
sums outstanding after the date for due payment This entitlement to interest shall be without prejudice to the Company's
right to terminate the hire by reason of non- payment Interest shall continue to accrue after such termination until payment of
such overdue amount.
12. The Company may at its sole discretion and subject to availability and at the request of the Hirer, add, subtract or substitute
to the equipment or let on hire without creating a modifying agreement within the meaning of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
13. Each price or rate of hire quoted by the Company to the Hirer shall be exclusive of Value Added Tax unless Value Added
Tax is expressed in writing to be included. Without prejudice to the foregoing, the expression 'net' or 'nett' in any quotation
or price shall mean exclusive of Value Added Tax.
14. If delivery and or collection dates are quoted these are estimates only. Time for delivery and for collection of the Fencing is not
of the essence of the Contract unless expressly stated in writing to be so. If the Company has agreed to collect Fencing on a
certain date but does not collect it on that date, hire charges shall nevertheless cease to accrue on that date.
15. Where the delivery or the collection of the Fencing is done by the Company the Hirer shall pay a delivery or collection charge
at the Company's standard transport rate applicable at the time of the delivery or the collection of the fencing. Such charges
shall include any wasted transport, loading or unloading time incurred by the Company by reason of any express or implied
requirement of the Hirer.
16. Instructions to the Company to collect Fencing must be given in writing to reach the Company at least five working days
before collection is required. For this purpose Saturdays, Sundays and all Bank and Public Holidays are not working days.
Such written notice shall be the only proof of collection instructions to the Company.
17. If the Hirer or its representative is present upon delivery of the Fencing, it shall check the consignment in the presence of the
carrier. Upon delivery of the Fencing the Hirer or its representative shall sign the Hire Delivery Note. In the event of any
shortage and/ or damage the said Hire Delivery Note must be endorsed by the Hirer accordingly.
18. If the Hirer or its representative is present upon delivery of the Fencing, then subject to any endorsement on the Hire Delivery
Note, the same shall be conclusive proof of the delivery of the quantity of Fencing shown on the same.
19. If the Hirer or its Representative is not present when the Fencing Is delivered the Company will send a hire delivery note to
the Hirer.
20. Unless the Hirer reports any alleged discrepancies between the Fencing recorded in the Hire Delivery Note by letter posted to the Company within one working day of the receipt of the Hire Delivery Note that Note shall be conclusive proof of delivery of the Fencing shown on the same.
21. The Hirer is required to load and unload all Fencing on delivery and collection at the beginning and end of the Period of Hire whether the vehicle is provided by the Company, or the Hirer.
22. If the Hirer fails to load or unload Fencing as required by condition 21 the Company may but shall not be bound to carry out such loading and unloading. The Hirer must pay to the Company its additional charges for such loading and unloading.
23. The Fencing will not be received by the Company outside the opening hours of the premises or depot of the Company.
24. When Fencing is returned by the Hirer to the Company or collected by the Company it will be counted at the Company's premises. Such count shall be a count only for the purpose of verifying the quantities and not an inspection of the condition of the Fencing. The Hirer is entitled to attend the count and is advised to do so.
25. At the end of the count the Hire Return Note will be completed and signed on behalf of the Company, and will thereafter be a conclusive record of the quantity of Fencing returned by the Hirer except in so far as the Hirer endorses upon the Hire Return Note, and signs, the details of any descent from the quantity so recorded. If the Hirer endorses on the Hire Return Note any such dissent the Company will normally, unless prevented by circumstances conduct a further count. If the Hirer is not present at the count a copy of the Hire Return Note will be sent by the Company to the Hirer.
26. The Hirer shall indemnify the Company in respect of all claims by any person whatsoever for injury to persons and/ or damage to property caused by or in connection with or arising out of the use of the Fencing and in respect of all costs and charges in connection therewith whether arising under statute or common law.
27. For the avoidance of doubt, no title in the Fencing shall pass to or belong to the Hirer. The Hirer shall not deal with or sub- let the Fencing or any part thereof without the written permission of the Company.
28. The Hirer shall keep the Fencing at all times in his possession and control and take adequate measures to ensure its safe keeping.
29. The Hirer shall permit the Company and any person authorised by it at all times to enter upon the premises in which the Fencing is situated to inspect and examine the same.
30. The Hirer shall, at the request of the Company or any person authorised by the Company inform the Company in writing, within one working day of the receipt of such request, of the location or last known location of all fencing hired from the Company.
31. If Fencing is lost or stolen or damaged beyond repair the Hirer shall pay the cost of replacing it in accordance with the price in the Company's price list applicable at the date of invoice for the same. Notwithstanding such payment the Hirer shall not acquire any title to or interest in the Fencing. The Company shall retain title to the Fencing for the purpose of protecting the security mark on their Fencing, and in the case of Fencing damaged beyond repair the Hirer shall return it to the Company in its damaged state.
32. Should the Company sell for whatever reason their hire stock that has been marked with their security paint it is the customers responsibility to remove all traces of the said paint and the sale is conditional upon the removal of such paint. Title to any sold equipment does not pass to the customer until all traces of the paint have been removed and the title to any equipment bearing the paint remains with the Company whether or not the items have been paid for.
33. In the event of any unauthorised third party removing or attempting to remove the Company's Fencing in part or in whole the Hirer shall report the incident to the Police immediately upon discovery of such action or actions and shall thereafter inform the Company in writing within one working day.
34. In the event of any lost or stolen Fencing being found by or returned to the Hirer, the Hirer shall return the same forthwith to the Company whether or not the Hirer has paid the cost of replacement under Condition 31. If the Hirer has made payment under Conditon 31 then in the event of lost or stolen Fencing being returned to the Company by the Hirer or otherwise recovered by the Company the Hirer shall be entitled to repayment of the amount of such payment subject to the right of the Company to reduce the amount or repayment by deducting hire charges as if such Fencing had not been lost but had been in the possession and use of the Hirer.
35. In the event of any other damage whatsoever arising to the Fencing during the Period of Hire, the Hirer shall pay to the Company the cost of repair to the same together with the Company's administration charges. The decision whether or not any Fencing has been damaged beyond repair shall be made by the Company at its sole discretion.
36. The Company undertakes that the Fencing supplied shall be in good order. The Fencing shall conclusively be deemed to be in good order unless the Hirer gives to the Company written notice of any alleged defect within three working days of delivery. If the Hirer has given such written notice the Company shall repair or replace free of charge any Fencing found to be defective. The decision whether to repair or to replace shall be by the Company at its sole discretion.
37. The Company shall be liable in respect of death or personal injury caused by its negligence, without prejudice to the right of the Company to claim contribution from the Hirer or any other person, firm or company also liable.
38. Save as is hereinbefore expressly provided, any condition, warranty or statement, whether statutory or otherwise express or implied in connection with the Fencing or its description or its quality or its fitness for purpose or otherwise, is hereby excluded.
39. Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the Company shall not be liable in respect of any drawing, design or specification. It is the responsibility of the Hirer to check and verify the accuracy of all drawings and adequacy of all drawings or specifications irrespective of who prepared them.
40. Save as is hereinbefore provided, the Company shall not be liable to the Hirer in contract, tort or otherwise either directly or vicariously for any loss direct, indirect, consequential or otherwise arising or alleged to arise out of the Fencing or its use or its erection or dismantling or any failure of or delay In delivery of the Same.
41. The Hirer shall effect and keep in force during the Period of Hire, a policy or polices of insurance without any excess and expressed to be enforceable by the Company against the insurer In respect of the following risks.
i. any liability of the Company or of the Hirer for which the Company may be liable under any statute or at common law in respect of the death of or Injury to any person and damage to any property arising out of the condition, use, erection and dismantling of the Fencing including any such liability which may arise out of or in the course of the employment or engagement of any workman or sub contract or employed or engaged by the Company or by the Hirer.
ii. any loss of or damage to the Fencing by fire, explosion, storm, tempest, flood, bursting or overflowing of water tanks, apparatus or pipes (whether or not the same be caused by the default or negligence of the Company, its servants or agents), lightning, earthquake, aircraft or anything dropped therefrom, aerial objects, riot and civil commotion to the full value of the Fencing, together with the cost of any professional fees or services and the cost of erecting and dismantling the same.
42. In respect of such policies of Insurance
i. the Hirer hereby irrevocably appoints the Company his agent for the purpose of receiving monies payable under the said policies and giving a discharge thereof.
ii. the Hirer undertakes punctually to pay all premiums payable under the said policies and to do everything necessary to maintain the said policies in full effect and not do anything whereby the policies will or may be void, voidable, cancellable or unenforceable.
iii. the Hirer will allow the Company from time to time to inspect the said policies and will produce receipts of premiums under the said policies.
43. In addition to its rights at common law, any of the events hereinafter set out shall be deemed to be a repudiation of the contract and shall entitle the Company at its sole discretion summarily to terminate the Contract of Hire.
i. any hire charges outstanding
ii. nonpayment under any other contract between the Hirer and the Company, or any of its associated Companies.
iii. a cessation of the business of the Hirer.
iv. the commission of any act of bankruptcy by the Hirer or the making of a receiving order against the Hirer.
v. Any arrangement or composition of the Hirer with its creditors or any assignment for the benefit of such creditors.
vi. the levying of distress or execution or an attempt thereat upon any of the Hirer's property.
vii. any judgement against the Hirer being unsatisfied for a period of 14 days or more.
viii. If the Hirer is a company, an order for the winding up of the Hirer or the giving of notice that a resolution for the winding up of the Hirer has been or will be proposed.
ix. any cheque, bill of exchange, or negotiable instrument drawn by or upon the Hirer being dishonoured, referred to drawer or countermanded by the Hirer.
x. failure to comply with a request under Condition 27.
44. The Company shall be entitled at its option to send any notice or document to the Hirer by post to any address given by the Hirer to the Company as its address or to the registered office of the Hirer (If a company).
45. The Hirer shall not be entitled to withhold any hire charge or any amount payable to the Company because of any disputed claim of the Hirer In respect of any alleged breach of contract or negligence by the Company, its servants or agents, nor shall the Hirer be entitled to any set off against any amount payable under this contract to the Company any monies which are not then presently payable by the Company or for which the Company disputes liability.
46. The rights of the company shall not be Prejudiced or restricted by any indulgence or forbearance extended to the Hirer and no waiver in respect of any breach by the Hirer shall operate as a waiver in respect of any subsequent breach.
47. This contract will be subject to the law of the country in which it is made. Payment shall be in pounds sterling.

Alex Watts :

Their terms do NOT allow them to do this.

Alex Watts :

You can refuse to pay

Alex Watts :

Even if you did agree to their terms, it does not say they can continue to charge

Alex Watts :

Does that clarify?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

if they still dont remove their stuff, is there anything I can do

Alex Watts :

You can sue for loss and damage of getting it removed and stored

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

JACUSTOMER-csa4pwr7- :

thanks alex

Alex Watts :

Thanks, If this answers your question might I invite you to rate my answer.

Alex Watts :

If the system wont let you please do say, if you need more help please click reply

Alex Watts :

If this answers your question could I invite you leave feedback on my service which I hope has been excellent today, if you need more information or help then please click reply.

Please remember that I am always happy to help if you have future questions, even if I am in Court I can normally respond within a few hours. For future information, please start them with ‘For Alex W’.

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