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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10915
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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For an interest-based group such as a choir, Enhanced Disclosures

Resolved Question:

For an interest-based group such as a choir, Enhanced Disclosures should only be obtained for adults who have been appointed to look after any children. Disclosure applications should not be submitted for anyone else because general adults are not taking part in any form of "regulated activity"; their contact with children is "incidental" only.
A parish group is not applying these rules correctly. Please can you advise me how I can locate a solicitor who could help with this. What aspect of the Law is involved? Is it Human Rights, or Civil Liberties, or General Litigation? And is it Civil or Criminal law?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Alex Watts : Hello my name is ***** ***** I will help you with this.
Alex Watts : Is there any reason for the objection to crb for all people?
Customer:

Yes, because it is an infringement of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. An Enhanced Disclosure may only be submitted when the person will be undertaking some form of "regulated activity". Simply taking part in a group activity alongside chilren who are properly supervised at all times, is not a regulated activity, it is incidental contact.

Alex Watts : Is the group publically funded or private?
Customer:

It's a bellringing group in a Catholic Parish. Exactly the same rules would appliy for a parish choir. The relevant rules are in a Safeguarding Pack which is available from the Archdiocese of Liverpool website. This talks about "volunteers" which is clearly intended to means anyone who volunteers to look after children. This term is intead being interpreted by our Parish Rep as any adult who volunteers to ring the church's bells, or sings in the church choir. The Archdiocese refuse to clarify what their term "volunteer" is intended to mean. The Parish say they are only doing what is required by the Archdiocese. The Archdiocese say that this is all a parish matter. Between them, they are just playing with words. Meanwhile, Criminal Law is being violated, but they refuse to discuss the matter. They don't like the message, so they are blaming the messenger. Some legal clout is needed to get them to see sense.

Customer:

I appreciate that this is a specialised area, but I've not yet been able to locate anyone in the legal profession who has the necessary background knowledge. I'm hoping that you will be able to help with this ...

Alex Watts :

Thank you. This could well be a case for Judicial Review as they are publically funded as a Church

Alex Watts :

This means that you could get a High Court Judge to look at their decision to do this and decide whether it is a Legal for them to do it and reasonable.

Alex Watts :

It may well be that a Judge considers it illegal.

Alex Watts :

Further a Judge will go on to decide whether this is a reasonable course of action. Based on what you have said, I do not think that it is.

Alex Watts :

Of course CRB checks are now called DBS checks and indeed there are MANY offences that are filtered out, so most wont show when they are spent.

Alex Watts :

But a Judge will consider this and either agree with their decision or remit it back for reconsideration.

Alex Watts :

There is a cost to this and you may or may not be entitled to legal aid

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

Customer:

Thanks, Alex. Yes, I appreciate that CRB is now DBS; I've spoken with their helpdesk recently to confirm my understanding of the legal position. Could you clarify please what you mean by Judicial Review in your statement: "This could well be a case for Judicial Review as they are publically funded as a Church" Where could I engage someone who could set up a Judicial Review for this matter? If I were to win such a case, do you think would my legal costs be met by the other party?

Alex Watts : Any public body or body funded by public money could be subject to judicial review. Where a private organisation is funding itself this is not subject to judicial review.
Alex Watts : Yes if you win the JR you can ask the court for costs.
Alex Watts : Does that help?
Customer:

Thanks, ***** ***** been reading about the JR process on Wikpedia. For this purpose, is the RC Church in England & Wales a public body? If so, this would appear to be an excellent route for me to try. If not, I would be back to looking for a solicitor with the right background.

Customer:

If a JR is appropriate, how could I instogate this process?

Alex Watts : Yes they are subject to JR
Alex Watts : you can find a solicitor that deals with administrative law
Alex Watts : http://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/
Alex Watts : Does that help?
Customer:

OK, I'll give this a try tomorrow. You've been a lot more helpful than many others I've spoken with today

Customer:

Thanks

Alex Watts : Thank you. Please remember to rate my answer before you go
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10915
Experience: Solicitor with 5+ years experience
Ash and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hello again Alex,


This is the only question on my mind, it has dominated our lives for the last several years! Finding a solicitor who is familiar with this topic is proving quite challenging. I'm not prepared to fund someone's learning on the job, I need someone who is already familiar with this aspect of CRB/DBS law.


Today, I am writing to 25 local priests to enquire how "ordinay adults" are treated in their parishes. Knowing that proper situations exist in other nearby parishes would be good to know for certain.


Today's action may also spark off some local debate which could result in the problem being resolved without the need for litigation.


If the Big Stick is required, JR does seem the way to go, so thanks for pointing me in that direction.


Kind regards,


Robin Emley

Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Indeed. I hope the actions I have suggested has helped.

Alex
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Alex, how can this conversation be closed down? I've given you a 'Good' rating already. Because I replied to your 'hello' message this morning, the system seems to want to charge me again.


 


I appreciate your help to date, for which I was happy to pay the agreed sum. Now I need to move on in other directions as we've discussed.


 


TIA, Robin

Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Don't worry they are system generated
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Alex, Help!


Because we have exchanged messages after our business was complete, the system is sending me a reminder message every hour, and wants more money. The only way I can see to stop these is to give you a bad rating. I do hope you can do something to stop this nonsense at your end. If you can make these messages go away, I promise you won't hear another word from me :)


Thanks,


Robin

Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Ignore them!

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