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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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We are a church based in Northern Ireland with just the treasurer

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We are a church based in Northern Ireland with just the treasurer to sign alone which we now know was unadvisable. The treasurer stole monies in excess of £100000. from the church and was found guilty in court. Our bank cashed and processed cheques to the tune of £27500 eg cheques made payable to the treasurers credit card with little question, changed her address without looking to advise the chairperson or committee. Made cheques out to her then boyfriend. The bank relied entirely on the bank mandate and insists it acting correctly Where was the duty of care on the part of the bank? if someone spells my name wrong on a cheque my bank will not lodge it. These cheques were for large amounts. Surely there is banking case history that gives a duty to the bank to look out for certain activity as part of their duty of care and would these banking cases not carry some weight in todays activities? yours Irwin
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hello,
I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.
I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.
Thank you!
Nicola
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Nicola,

No problem. Decision has to be made on 7th Oct on what additional information we will use in asking the ombudsman to review our case. I hope that historical banking cases, which were not presented to the ombudsman in our original complaint, will be to our benefit. Can you help in this?

Irwin

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hello,
We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.
Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks

Irwin

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hello,
I apologise as we have not yet been able to find a Professional to assist you. Do you wish for me to continue to search for someone to assist you or would you like for us to close your question at this time?
Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi

Please continue

Irwin

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 2 years ago.
Hello,
We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.
Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thanks

Irwin

Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Hello my name is ***** ***** I will help you with this.
For now what was the biggest sum cashed please?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Alex,

No cheques actually used to get cash directly from any bank. Signed cheques made out to her own credit card in the name of the bank that her credit card was held. Used other banks to process these cheques for her. These amounts varied from even amounts to paying her credit card off in full. No questions asked by receiving banks. No inquiry made by the churches bank. Bank changed her address at her request without looking for a fresh mandate signed by chairperson and secretary as is usual. No attempt to avoid fraud. The ombudsmans report stated that the churches bank do not need to check cheques below £5000. What basis is there in law for this as a reason for failing to protect the church from fraud. Banking law makes no reference to any amount at all, that we are aware of, stating that all cheques are to be scrutinised. Can the bank make changes to it's own rules regardless that this is at odds with previous banking cases and surely the general business banking public would need to have a right to know and agree to these changes.

Sorry getting frustrated

Irwin

Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Ok. So how much are you saying is owed?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Alex

Stole around £70,000 in cash from donations ( did not lodge the money) as well as fraudulent cheques issued as above to the amount of £27500 which formed our action against Ulster Bank on the grounds of lack of due care and diligence. Although cheques were presented through other banks, who should have realized that it was a fraudulent transaction , it is felt by us that the action should have been spotted by the Church's bank.

Irwin

Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
You need to write and set out your losses and request a refund within 14 days or say you will go to Court within 14 days. You should make sure you send this signed delivery and keep a copy.
If they do not refund you then you can issue proceedings in the County Court. You can either do this online at: https://www.courtsni.gov.uk/ or by completing forms and take it to your local County Court.
The Court will then issue a claim which a copy will be sent to the Defendant who will have a limited time to defend it, if not you can enter Judgment and enforce.
If the matter is defended it will be set down for a trial. If the claim is for £3,000 or less it will be a small claim and you will not need representation. Over this sum you will need representation at trial as there are Court rules and procedures to follow.
Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?
Alex
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience: Solicitor with 5+ years experience
Ash and 4 other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Alex,


Awaiting reply from review of ombudsman of Church case. If no success we will bring before our local solicitor the suggestions you outlined in an attempt to recover some loss, or we can approach our insurance company, who have been following the case through our solicitor, to see if we can enter into an agreement with them where we take joint action against the bank in court and we agree a percentage of any compensation that is rewarded in return for our insurance company agreeing to take on the costs involved . Is this a sensible arrangement/ procedure to take? irwin

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