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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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IN 2002/3 I ,IN THE COURSE OF BUSINESS,WHICH WAS A JEWELLERY

Resolved Question:

IN 2002/3 I ,IN THE COURSE OF BUSINESS,WHICH WAS A JEWELLERY STORE IN LONDON,I PURCHASED A JOB LOT OF ITEMS SILVER AND OTHER METALS,ONE OF WHICH WAS A SMALL BRONZE ITEM.THE BRONZE DRAGON WAS OF NO KNOWN VALUE TO ME ,I PUT IT ON A SHELF AND IT STAYED WITH ME TILL I CLOSED THE BUSINESS IN 2005.
THEN IT WAS PLACED ON A SHELF AT HOME,IN 2010/11,I HAD A CLEAR OUT OF A NUMBER OF COLLECTABLES BRIC BRAC ,I LEFT THESE ITEMS WITH A FRIENDS OF MINE,MR.P .BROOKS TO SELL FOR ME AS I WAS GOING AWAY ABROAD FOR A FEW MONTHS TRAVELING.IN THESE ITEMS WERE THE SMALL BRONZE DRAGON(WE THOUGHT IT WAS A FROG)NOT KNOWING IT WAS OF QUITE SOME VALUE HE ENTERED SOME ITEMS IN AN AUCTION ON MY BEHALF BUT IN HIS NAME,THIS ITEM SOLD FOR APROX £3700 WHICH WE WERE DELIGHTED ABOUT AFTER SO LONG THINKING IT WAS JUST WORTH £100 AS A NICE OLD BRONZE FIGURE.
THEN I THINK WHAT WAS ABOUT 6 MONTHS LATER THE AUCTION CONTACTED MY FRIEND AND STATED THAT THE LITTLE BRONZE WAS INFACT A STOLEN ITEM FROM 1998 APROX,FROM A STORE IN LONDON,WHO WERE SINCE PAID OUT ON THERE INSURANCE POLICY.
SO WE REFUNDED THE AUCTION ROOM AS HE WAS A FRIEND OF MR BROOKS,AND THEY IN TURN REFUNDED THERE PURCHASER.
NOW THE FACT IT WAS STOLEN CAME TO LIGHT BECAUSE THE PURCHASER HAD PUT THE SMALL BRONZE IN CHRISTIES FOR SALE AT A MUCH HIGHER ESTIMATE.
AND THE ITEM WAS ON THE STOLEN ART REGISTER WORTH APROX £3000/5000
NOW I HAVE MADE CLAIM TO THIS ITEM FROM LAPSE OF TIME ,I DID SPEAK TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY OVER MY CLAIM AND I DID SAY THAT I DID NOT HAVE ANY TYPE OF RECEIPT NOW AS OF COURSE WHY WOULD I ,IT WAS OF NO VALUE THEN AND OF LITTLE SIGNIFICANCE ,THEY OF COUSE SAID THEY HAVE TITLE OF IT ,BUT CHRISTIES ARNT CONVINCED AND HAVE RETAINED IT 3 ODD YEARS TO THIS DAY .THEY THINK I SHOULD HAVE SOME AT LEAST HALF THE VALUE WHEN SOLD DUE TO "LAPSE OF TIME",
CHRISTIES HAVE ASKED REPEATEDLY THE INSURES ,TYLER AND CO,TO CONTACT ME WITH A COMPRAMISE BUT AS YET NOTHING ,WHAT DO YOU THINK IF ANYTHING I CAN DO ,CAN YOU HELP IN THIS
GREGORY.D.TYNE
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Alex Watts :

Hello Gregory my name is ***** ***** I will try to help you.

Alex Watts :

I assume your insurance are refusing to pay out? Wont you have a receipt from the dates you purchased as a business?

Customer:

NOT AS SUCH,SOME OF THE ITEMS WERE, IF I REMEMBER BUT BRONZE BIT AND OTHER ITEMS NOT THOUGHT TO BE OF VALUE AMONG THEM WERE NOT FOR RE SALE AT THAT TIME .

Alex Watts :

And the insurance company wont pay out without a receipt?

Customer:

HELLO

Alex Watts :

Hi

Customer:

DO YOU WANT ME TO WAIT ?

Alex Watts :

I asked: And the insurance company wont pay out without a receipt?

Customer:

NO YOU DIDNT READ MY FIRST ACCOUNT PROPERLY,THERE NOT MY INSURANCE COMPANY

Alex Watts :

You said you made a claim, you spoke to the insurance company over your claim?

Alex Watts :

Perhaps you can clarify and I can help

Customer:

CAN YOU READ MY ACCOUNT AGAIN AND ASK ME ANYTHING YOU NOT SURE ON BECAUSE I THINK I HAVE MADE IT CLEAR WHAT THE CASE IS

Alex Watts :

Ok. I will take another look, please bear with me

Customer:

THE POINT IS CHRISTIES ARE HOLDING AN ITEM THAT I HAVE TITLE OF ,AN INSURANCE COMPANY ARE CLAIMING IT IS THERES AS THEY PAID OUT ON IT IN1998,WE KNOW IT IS ONE OF THE SAME AGREED ,BUT DO I HAVE AT LEAST HALF OF TITLE AS OF THE LAW TERM

Alex Watts :

Sadly you don't have title. In order to sell something you must have good title, ie it is not stolen and you own it 100%. As the item has been reported stolen then you do not have good title, therefore you can not demand possession back.

Alex Watts :

But if you want the item back you can issue proceedings.

Alex Watts :

You would need to complete form N1

Alex Watts :

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n001-eng.pdf

Alex Watts :

And form N16a

Alex Watts :

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n016a-eng.pdf

Alex Watts :

You are asking the court for an order that they 'deliver up' the item they claim is stolen.

Alex Watts :

The Judge will then consider the matter and decide whether to order that they deliver up the item to you. If they refuse they can be in contempt of Court and warned, fined or sent to prison

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

Customer:

YES PLEASE

Alex Watts :

yes?

Customer:

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY CASE FROM WHAT I HAVE ASKED YOU

Customer:

DO I HAVE ANY CLAIM TO THIS ITEM THAT CHRISTIES ARE HOLDING

Alex Watts :

If it is stolen and they have evidence then no, I do not think you have a claim. You do not have 'good title'.

Alex Watts :

But you can still bring a claim if you wish and I have outlined the procedure for you should you wish to do that

Alex Watts :

They must have evidence that it was stolen. No evidence then they can not withhold it

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

Customer:

THAT HAVE PROVED BY HAVING A PICTURE OF THE ITEM THAT LOOKS THE SAME.BUT CHRISTIES HAVE HAD IT 3 YEARS AND SAY DUE TO LAPSE OF TIME I HAVE A SHARE IN THE PROCEEDS AT SALE

Customer:

I HAD THE ITEM FOR 10 YEARS AND PUT IT IN A SALE HOWCOME I HAVENT GOT GOOD TITLE

Alex Watts :

Because you can never have good title if it was stolen.

Alex Watts :

But you need evidence it was stolen

Customer:

THE INSURANCE COMPANY JUST SAY IT THE SAME ONE I TOOK THERE WORD FOR IT ITS NOT NUMBERED BUT HAVING TWO THE SAME IN THIS CONTRY IS UNLIKELY I WOULD AGREE BUT ITS POSSIBLE

Alex Watts :

It is possible for you to bring a claim yes.

Alex Watts :

But Christies would need to prove it was stolen

Customer:

ok how would you suggest i put in a claim is it something i can do my self

Alex Watts :

Yes you can do it yourself. You need to ask the Court for an order that they 'deliver up' the the item

Customer:

should i just go along to my local county court

Alex Watts :

Yes.

Alex Watts :

https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/search/

Alex Watts :

To find your local one

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

Customer:

yes thanks one more thing ,

Alex Watts :

Of course.

Customer:

the insurance company paid out 1000 on this ,but it turns out now its worth 3000 ,i did say 3 years ago i would be prepared to reimburse them there loss 1000,but they said no they would acept 3000,are they allowed to make a profit on this sort of case .

Alex Watts :

Well it is stolen so it should be if you do not get it back, that it is returned to the owner.

Alex Watts :

The insurance company or Christies can't sell it

Customer:

the owner is not interested i was told

Alex Watts :

But the insurance company and Christies cant sell it

Alex Watts :

If the owner is not interested then you should get a Court order for delivery up of the item as we have discussed.

Customer:

ok thank you i try that .

Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience: Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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