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Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
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Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
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We are a small car sales company and sold a car to someone

Resolved Question:

We are a small car sales company and sold a car to someone where they signed an agreement to pay over a two year period. They have only repaid a small amount and we found out they sold the car and are now telling us they will keep the money.
As we are not licensed credit brokers they tell us they will keep the money. The agreement stipulated that the car remained our property until it was paid for. The V5 was given to the customer
we know the car is for sale in a garage can we repossess it ?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Alex Watts :

Hello my name is ***** ***** I will help you with this.

Alex Watts :

For now please let me know whether you made any charge for credit?

Customer:

No, we made no charge for credit

Alex Watts :

Ok, this is a civil matter. You can't just repossess it.

Alex Watts :

You need to write and set out your losses and request a payment within 14 days or say you will go to Court within 14 days. You should make sure you send this signed delivery and keep a copy.



If they do not pay you then you can issue proceedings in the County Court. You can either do this online at: www.moneyclaim.gov.uk or by completing form N1 http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n001-eng.pdf and take it to your local County Court.



The Court will then issue a claim which a copy will be sent to the Defendant who will have a limited time to defend it, if not you can enter Judgment and enforce.



If the matter is defended it will be set down for a trial. If the claim is for £10,000 or less it will be a small claim and you will not need representation.



Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

Customer:

Are you saying we have transferred ownership to them? In the agreement it stated the vehicle will remain our property until it’s paid for in full. The fact is, they have sold it, but it wasn’t theirs to sell. In my layman’s knowledge, that’s tantamount to theft -knowingly disposing of property that doesn’t belong to them. They both signed the agreement knowing full well that they do not have the right to sell or dispose of the car.

Taking these people to court is a waste of money because they tell me they will declare bankruptcy

maybe I will have to call their bluff.


Alex Watts :

Yes but you do need a Court order.

Alex Watts :

I dont think you can just go and get it without a Court order as you are on thin ice - you dont have a consumer credit licence and you have been offering credit

Alex Watts :

Even interest free

Alex Watts :

Does that clarify?

Customer:

We do have a consumer License, see attached, but we thought it didn’t cover us for this type of transaction, i’ve attached the agreement and my take on it now is we can carry out consumer credit business as stated under. Categories and sub categories


Consumer credit business

Hire Purchase and/or Conditional Sale Agreements


The license is valid and in ***** *****s name under 121 car sales it was ***** ***** who signed the agreement with the buyer on behalf of 121 car sales agreement.


In view of this we just want to recover the car can we just repossess it ?

Attachment: 2014-12-03_100625_121_car_loan_agreement_revised_with_davey_brill__annie_last.pdf

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Attachment: 2014-12-03_100713_121_car_sales_interim_fca.pdf

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Alex Watts :

Ok - you still need a Court order.

Alex Watts :

Even with credit.

Alex Watts :

It is called return of goods.

Alex Watts :

You MUST have a Court order.

Alex Watts :

Does that clairfy?

Customer:

One more question. The people who signed the contract have sold the car knowing that it is not theirs to sell, isn’t that fraud, knowingly selling property for financial gain that does not belong to them ?

Alex Watts :

Yes that is fraud, they do not have title. The Police should be involved.

Alex Watts :

Does this help?

Customer:

The police informed us they will put a section 66 on the car and question the people who sold the car. They say they deceived the garage they sold the car to. I hope to recover the vehicle and the garage owner sues the people he purchased the car from. we will also make a claim in the small claims court for all the payments they missed. I think the garage will protest that when he bought the car they checked HPI then assumed it was clear of any outstanding finance.

Alex Watts :

Yes but if they do not have good title it can't be sold to anyone. You can still go and claim it

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

Customer:

That’s what we intend to do! The only fly in the ointment is the garage has the V50 because we gave it to our customer after they signed the agreement. We have the purchase invoice from the people we who sold us the car together with the agreement signed by both of people who just sold our car. This should prove the car belongs to us. I believe the agreement is the key to all this as it clearly displays the registration and make of the car. We have better proof because the V50 is in the customer’s name which is the same name on the agreement. The agreement states the lender will retain title until payment of the full amount of the loan is made by the borrower. Upon receiving full payment the lender will transfer title to the security to the borrower. Title will only pass once all the payments are made.

Alex Watts :

I am not saying ownership has been transferred but you need to get a Court order for Judgment and delivery of the vehcile.

Alex Watts :

You can't just go and collect it without a Court order.

Alex Watts :

Does that clarify?

Customer:

Surely the police will help when they see all the doucments after they impose a section 60 so that they can establish who owns the vehicle

Customer:

or do we still need to get a court order ?

Alex Watts :

Yes but they will consider it a civil matter.

Alex Watts :

But if you have a Court Judgment that makes it easier.

Alex Watts :

You can't just turn up and repossess it

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

Customer:

thanks for that, how long does it take to obtain a court orde to reposess the car?

Alex Watts :

Probably a few weeks all in all.

Alex Watts :

The Court needs to notify D and they should be given an opportunity to make representations

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

Customer:

Okay I’m getting the message here that someone can deceptively sell a car that doesn’t belong to them, receive the money for the car and spend it. Meanwhile we have to go to the expense of going to court to obtain a court order to retrieve our property.

Fact 1 We have the purchase invoice from the person who sold the car to us

Fact 2 We have a signed agreement that states, clearly the car belongs to us until the final payment has been made (granted if they’ve paid over 1/3 they could prevent us repossessing the vehicle)

Fact 3 They have without doubt committed a criminal offence by deceiving the garage they sold the car to by not informing the garage that they owed a lot of money (over £5,000) on the vehicle.

Why would I need to go to court when the police can settle this?

I would have thought that common sense would prevail and the police would see exactly what’s occurred here and unravel the obvious situation, Or is that beyond the Police’s call of duty?

I recon you’re still going to tell me I still need a court order to repossess our car!

What happens to the car in the meantime, do the police take it away until the court decides?

Alex, you’ve been stoic all along and it is all much appreciated, I will give you the best recommend possible when you’ve sent your reply and promise not to trouble you again with this. unless you would like to know the outcome?

Alex Watts :

Yes but you do need a Court order.

Alex Watts :

Sadly that is all I can say

Alex Watts :

If things went wrong then you could be stuck - you must get a Court order. it is the most sensible and safest way

Alex Watts :

Does that clarify?

Customer:

how do we get a court order can you do this for me ?

Alex Watts :

I cant do this sadly. You need to complete form N1

Alex Watts :

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n001-eng.pdf

Alex Watts :

And ask the Court for an order.

Alex Watts :

The Court will list the matter and decide whether to grant it

Alex Watts :

Its that easy!

Ash and other Law Specialists are ready to help you

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