Hi There, My tenant has been a tenant for the last 22yrs in my property on an AST. This property belonged to my father-in-law who passed away before the tenant moved in. He and his partner were put in there by the Executor of the Will and Trustee at the time for my husband (who was only 17 yrs old at the time). My husband took over the tenancy a fews hers later, but unfortunately passed away in 2005, when I wrote a tenancy on the 5th aug 2005, for the tenant - which is now a periodic tenancy. A sec 20 was served, by the the Executor, before the original tenancy (22 yrs ago) was given to advise them this would be an AST. I have copies of all documents. I have, after 2007, spoken with his partner about them leaving, but they said they wouldn't leave. At the beginning of this year I spoke to him again about leaving and agreed to give him until Jan 2015 to leave (a year's notice). He agreed to and was thankful for the time given. I sent him the official notice on the 22/9/14 and although he agreed, at the time, to leave is now saying he won't go due to him not having saved the money to do so and because its his home and his kids' home even though 2 of them are adults and the last is 14. The kids do not live with him full time since having split with his partner. He has his rent paid by the council every 4 weeks and he tops up the amount by £60 to take it to £1000 per 4 weeks. We agreed on the tenancy agreement that this amount would pay every 4 weeks. I have just received an email for his solicitor to say that he doesn't believe the sec 21 to be valid and that I should 'issue possession proceedings'. I don't know if they have any of the contracts (1st or the last one nor am I sure if he has the sec 20). Coincidentally, I had already, on the 15th dec 2014 (which I believe is over the 2 month notice period), delivered the N5b form to the county court, because the tenant had already told me a few weeks ago that he would not leave on the agreed date (31/1/15). Do you think I have anything to worry about? There was a deposit on the original contract but my husband had used this against some alterations which the tenant had carried out on the property without permission - however I have no proof of that. I do have a letter from late husband to the tenant complaining about this work and also telling him that he would be asked to leave. I did not have any deposit given to me in 2005 (nor since) when my agreement with him was written.
You might be able to see that I have asked this question previously and was advised to give a section 21, but no advice regarding the (seemingly) necessary sec 20 was made.
Please could you also let me know where I would stand with regards ***** ***** doc too (it was dated the 26th august 1992).
I have the gambling book and tony robbins unlimited power cd
Sorry about that.
Hello my name is ***** ***** I will help you with this.
On what basis do they say the Section 21 notice is not valid please?
In short they have an AST but its now periodic.
Who owns the property now?
And you served the S.21?
Ok. I dont understand why it is not valid.
But I would agree, for the avoidance of doubt I would issue possession proceedings.
You need to complete form N5
And form N119
The Court will then list the matter for hearing and decide whether to give possession.
If the Court gives possession then your tenant will have to leave.
Well see what happens with that, N5b is for the accelerated procedure.
However if the Council pays the rent then they need a Court order to rehouse.
Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?
N119 is the particualrs of claim.
But if you have already submitted the N5b its too late to do this now.
The AST came into force in 1997
The tenancy was signed in 1992.
At present they have a periodic assured shorthold tenancy
So they can be evicted with notice.
You have served a notice to quit which is correct
Therefore they can be evicted, but ONLY with a Court order
Does that help?
Yes if its wrong you will need to reserve that correctly and submit again
The form N119 is the particulars of claim for possession
Yes you can issue a new Section 20.
No it does not mean you are giving a new AST
It simply means you are service notice again.
Generally you serve N119 at the same time as N119 because the Judge has a better grasp.
Not all Judges want it
Does that clarify?
In the last tenancy there was no mention of a deposit, but on the ones previous to 2004 there was one of £585 on the agreements. My husband used this against the problems the tenant caused in the property and that is why there was no mention of a deposit in the new tenancy agreement.
I have no written proof that my husband used this deposit, but the tenant also has no proof that a deposit was taken after 2005 when my name appeared on the contract. As it showed on the earlier tenancies, does this have repercussions on the sec 21 I have served recently, or should it have appeared on the last tenancy agreement for me to have had to protect it?
The deposit should have been protected. The onus is on you to show how it was used, that the tenant was notified etc.
The tenant must have had a deposit. If he has had the same property and deposit, whether it be your late father in law etc. The tenant is still owed the deposit so someone owes it
The fact you write a contract yes means the deposit should have been returned. So someone owes him a deposit.
The Council may owe you money but that is a matter between you and them not you and the tenant.
The Council made changes not the tenant, Any claim is against the Council
If this answers your question could I invite you rate my answer before you leave today.
If the system won’t let you please click reply.
Please bookmark my profile if you wish for future help: http://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/expert-alexwatts/
I'm afraid your answer has not helped me. I asked questions above which you have not answered. Can you please answer them before I rate you?
Perhaps you can outline the question(s) you have remaining and I can assist
I am here now online so we can answer all your questions
Sure, I can copy and paste them from above for you:
Sure. But I did think I had answered everything.
Do it one by one so we can work through them together
I did not say you would be responsible for the deposit. I said someone will be responsible, it may be from the estate or husband but no doubt someone will owe it and the tenant may raise that as an issue.
I wanted you to be aware of that
My husband has also died (back in 2005), so the tenant can only approach the estate about the deposit?
Yes that is correct
In the meanwhile the one and only contract I have with him makes no mention of the deposit and he signed it knowingly back in 2005, so as far as that is concerned can the tenant make a claim that as the old deposit was not protected and then also say that in that light the sec 21 which I served this september should be thrown out?
Ok - that should be fine then, if there was the new contract and no new deposit taken
So the fact that he signed my contract knowing there was no deposit mentioned will help me and not delay the section 21 and the N5b forms I have already submitted?
I won't need to start over again due to that old deposit?
There is a new contract with you, no deposit so you can proceed without delay
Just so you know I need to go to bed soon so it may be I may not respond until morning
I am up at 7am to go to the office!
Thank you for staying up. Sorry to go on, but I needed clarity as the law can be confusing and I'm doing this on my own.
Is there anything else I can clarify, or are you all good?
Now that I'm clear that you're saying that my contract with him and the forms I have submitted to court are correct (as well as the order of the steps I have taken are correct) and that the old deposit won't cause a problem, then I hope I'm all good.
If I could ask you to rate my answer before you go today please - the button should be at the bottom of the screen
If you need more help please click reply
Sure - if the judge, for some reason says the sec 21 has been served incorrectly and it relates to the deposit, can I come to you with questions re this?
Yes that is fine.
Just put any questions For Alex W and I can pick them up
So once I've rated you, I can come back to you? Thats great
Yes you can. Or you can ask for me. Either way is fine
Easier to ask for me as I am more likely to see it as I will be messaged
Merry Christmas to you! Santa will be here soon
I hope he brings us both lovely gifts (mine would be the end of this case lol!)
I hope so too.
Have a good one and please do take a moment to rate before you go
Sorry again, I was about to rate you, but its saying its going to clear this chat - I don't want to lose the info. Can I access it once I've rated you? If, so where can I find it? Thanks :)